Railroad Ties

   / Railroad Ties #21  
Creosote Sun Block-one application lasts for years.

:)

Bruce

Good one there, But my Mother was not very proud of it...Worried about other effects from it, as to might be in blood?? ya know Mothers...I always wondered if I was the only one out of dozens swimming there??
 
   / Railroad Ties #22  
There should be plenty of them out there. The government gave out a bunch of money to replace them. They have a machine that will lift the rail and slide the tie out and slide a new one in. For months they had a stack of the old ones sitting near a RR crossing waiting to be picked up. Since it's government money they are replacing lots of ones that they normally wouldn't.
 
   / Railroad Ties #23  
If you follow the Columbia River on the Oregon side just east of Portland, you'll see a gazillion (technical term) creosote ties all fresh and new in neat stacks just waiting to be shipped out of the mills. There may be a substitute, but there are plenty of creosote ties still being manufactured.:)
 
   / Railroad Ties #24  
No way I would be using them in a garden. Then feed my family the vegetables. I would think the creosote would get into the soil and the food? Better re-think this one. I would do some reading up on what to use for raised beds for gardening. Up to you!
 
   / Railroad Ties #25  
I think I would rather use creosote which is more like a tar that wont leach out in water than risk the chemical bath that is in treated lumber now. I know it is water soluable as that is what they mix it with. IF it dissolves in water, then water will leach it out. Old creosote has vaporized all it is going to from the surface of old cross ties.

Interestingly, wood creosote is determined to be the ingredient in smoked meat that preserves the meat and give it the smokey flavor. "Liquid Smoke" brand of meat preservative is made from creosote as is many of the cough syrups today which have their main ingredient coming from wood creosote(quaifenesin)
 
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   / Railroad Ties #26  
An extensive article in Wikipedia lists all the uses from date of discovery where it has been and still is used for medicinal purposes to present and studies on health effects.
Portion of wikipedia :
Health effectsAccording to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR), eating food or drinking water contaminated with high levels of coal tar creosote may cause a burning in the mouth and throat, and stomach pains. ATSDR also states that brief direct contact with large amounts of coal tar creosote may result in a rash or severe irritation of the skin, chemical burns of the surfaces of the eyes, convulsions and mental confusion, kidney or liver problems, unconsciousness, and even death. Longer direct skin contact with low levels of creosote mixtures or their vapors can result in increased light sensitivity, damage to the cornea, and skin damage. Longer exposure to creosote vapors can cause irritation of the respiratory tract.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that coal tar creosote is probably carcinogenic to humans, based on adequate animal evidence and limited human evidence. It is instructive to note that the animal testing relied upon by IARC involved the continuous application of creosote to the shaved skin of rodents. After weeks of creosote application, the animals developed cancerous skin lesions and in one test, lesions of the lung. The United States Environmental Protection Agency has stated that coal tar creosote is a probable human carcinogen based on both human and animal studies.[71] As such, the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 0.2 milligrams of coal tar creosote per cubic meter of air (0.2 mg/m3) in the workplace during an 8-hour day, and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) requires that spills or accidental releases into the environment of one pound (0.454 kg) or more of creosote be reported to them.[72]

There is no unique exposure pathway of children to creosote. Children exposed to creosote will probably experience the same health effects seen in adults exposed to creosote. It is unknown whether children differ from adults in their susceptibility to health effects from creosote.

A 2005 mortality study of creosote workers found no evidence supporting an increased risk of cancer death, as a result of exposure to creosote. Based on the findings of the largest mortality study to date of workers employed in creosote wood treating plants, there is no evidence that employment at creosote wood-treating plants or exposure to creosote-based preservatives was associated with any significant mortality increase from either site-specific cancers or non-malignant diseases. The study consisted of 2,179 employees at eleven plants in the United States where wood was treated with creosote preservatives. Some workers began work in the 1940s to 1950s. The observation period of the study covered 1979- 2001. The average length of employment was 12.5 years. One third of the study subjects were employed for over 15 years.[73]

The largest health effect of creosote is deaths caused by residential fires.
 
   / Railroad Ties #27  
For creosote treated posts...IF you have a place for a fire, put the butt end of the posts you want treated in the fire as the fire burns shove more post in for the depth you want creosoted. Tamarack makes the best posts.
 
   / Railroad Ties #28  
For creosote treated posts...IF you have a place for a fire, put the butt end of the posts you want treated in the fire as the fire burns shove more post in for the depth you want creosoted. Tamarack makes the best posts.

??? That is charring and fire hardening, not creosoting. It is a long known technique and actualy goes back to cave man days when they would harding spear tips that way.

Yes, it works to preserve posts, they will last longer than not done that way but also will fail long before a real creosote treated one will.

About as effective as the 'soak end in used motor oil' technique.

Harry K
 
   / Railroad Ties #29  
I think I would rather use creosote which is more like a tar that wont leach out in water than risk the chemical bath that is in treated lumber now. I know it is water soluable as that is what they mix it with. IF it dissolves in water, then water will leach it out. Old creosote has vaporized all it is going to from the surface of old cross ties.

Interestingly, wood creosote is determined to be the ingredient in smoked meat that preserves the meat and give it the smokey flavor. "Liquid Smoke" brand of meat preservative is made from creosote as is many of the cough syrups today which have their main ingredient coming from wood creosote(quaifenesin)

The 'creosote is poison' was and still is a panic reaction by the fringe. In order for a child to ingest enough to be harmful will require grinding up a goodly amount and feeding it to him.

As for leaching and getting into food...possible detectable by extremely sensitive lab equipment.
It's about the same argument as food raised "organically" vice with "artificial fertilyzers and chemicals". Food value is same for both as long as the produce is washed/peeled or otherwise reasonably sanitized in preparation.

Harry K
 

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