Rant on "Terms of use"

[newbury]

I've gotten several "Terms of Use/Privacy Policy" updates recently. Like for my cable provider, my internet provider and the most recent, an NBC one. The NBC one is 145 pages! No summary, not a mention of what's changed.
Does anyone know of a website that analyzes these?
I'm thinking like in the case of the someone who got hurt at Disney but was denied an easy claim because they had signed a document years before.
Without legal advice I'm flying blind on what I'm signing. For all I know I might be signing away any right to sue if a cable provider truck runs me over in the street.

 

[WinterDeere]

I predict this opening post is going to break the forum, with the number of "likes" it receives.

Wish I had some good advice, I'm dealing with the same, times two for home and business. I do think legislation needs to catch up with the state of affairs here, as it is completely unreasonable to expect consumers to read or understand the many hundreds (thousands?) of pages of TOU contracts they receive every year, just in the course of normal daily life.

In many or most cases, you've signed your consent to them, just by paying your bill or using the service.

 

[Jstpssng]

I drive auto salesmen in particular crazy because I take the time to at least look over the contract. "Most people don't bother to read those"...

Well I do. One thing I look for is an arbitration clause. The one time I did try to get money back on a service contract I had signed one of those... My butt hole hurt for a long time afterwards.

 

[5030]

it's the 'fine print' that always gets you...

 

[mikester]

Vote with your wallet. Stop giving business to those vendors.

 

[WinterDeere]

Vote with your wallet. Stop giving business to those vendors.

Really? You live in a world where there are service providers not operating under such contracts?

 

[Jstpssng]

Really? You live in a world where there are service providers not operating under such contracts?

You and I must use the same vendors.

 

[mikester]

Really? You live in a world where there are service providers not operating under such contracts?

Sure. I will never buy a Tesla because I refuse to ride around in a cell phone masquerading as a car that spies on me 24/7 and sells my info to insurers, banks etc.

I have Free To Air HDTV because I say FU to paying for the same crappier lower quality version of TV on satellite and cable.

I don't use Fakebook and all the other similar spyware and I actively block that stuff on my network. I also block google (with limited success) and stopped using gmail. I enjoy ad free TBN.

I don't install "apps" on my smart phone. I don't have any subscriptions or stream music.

I told my previous cellular provider to FO and pound sand when they arbitrarily raised my "locked-in-pricing" mid contract.

Like I said, vote with your pocketbook. Stop supporting those scammers. If TBN decides to force me to allow ads and tracking to use this site then it will be FU too.

Tin foil hat is optional.

 

[WinterDeere]

Sure. I will never buy a Tesla because I refuse to ride around in a cell phone masquerading as a car that spies on me 24/7 and sells my info to insurers, banks etc.

But that's the problem. You believe Tesla is unique, in this regard, but they are not. ALL car brands have massive privacy violations, and Tesla isn't even nearly the worst among them.

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

Likewise with your cell phone provider, and the internet provider you use for browsing this forum. It is pervasive, and unavoidable. You have probably done a better job than most, in limiting your exposure, but it is like a screen door in front of a fire hose.

 

[orezok]

it's the 'fine print' that always gets you...

What the big print givith, the fine print taketh away

 

[ultrarunner]

What I don’t understand is how my bank keeps changing the terms of service and now it’s all directed to websites like everyone has access.

Contrast this with my credit union and the only terms of service is when I opened my account decades ago… no updates since.

Back when paper ruled I would cross out and initial items I found objectionable but it’s take it or leave it in a digital world.

The cell plan had a flat rate which is grandfathered but somewhere along the line the flat rate was not longer flat if paid by credit or debit card which was actually a requirement to auto bill by card…

I’m like many here… no Social Media except TBN and no apps, no cable, etc… much is because I have an aversion to recurring cost…

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I also get frustrated by the constant updates.

My car app just updated it's terms of service. When I got the car, and loaded the App, I agreed to the terms of service then. It should not be legal to change the terms of service after using a product that you already agreed. I removed the App from my phone. They don't need to know all that data, and I don't need the App to drive the car.

 

[Jstpssng]

A bit different, but I joined a dating site years ago. They took my money but then... We need your phone # before we allow you to access the site.
Sorry, but that ship sailed. You needed to tell me that BEFORE I paid for the service, so that I could tell you to go pound sand.

Which I did anyways. I tried a few dating sites back in the day and found that most of them are scams. Especially the most touted, which featured Dr Phil when I belonged.

 

[Oaktree]

I tried a few dating sites back in the day and found that most of them are scams. Especially the most touted, which featured Dr Phil when I belonged.

YMMV on that. I met my wife thru an online service (E-Harmony). Dunno how it works now (we've been together over 20 years), but at the time you filled out an online questionnaire and they did the matching. Met a lot of reasonably nice women (far outnumbering the weirdos). I don't think anyone would have ever thought to fix my wife and I up, and it's unlikely our paths would ever have crossed otherwise but we hit it off from date #1.

 

[Oaktree]

But that's the problem. You believe Tesla is unique, in this regard, but they are not. ALL car brands have massive privacy violations, and Tesla isn't even nearly the worst among them.

Actually, the article you linked to noted that Tesla is the worst of a sorry lot in that regard, with Nissan in second place.
Given that that company's CEO seems to have considerable influence on the incoming regime in Washington I don't see any meaningful legislation coming along to limit this abuse anytime soon.

 

[WinterDeere]

Actually, the article you linked to noted that Tesla is the worst of a sorry lot in that regard, with Nissan in second place.

Good catch, Oak! Most such poles have actually put Nissan as worst, so it's actually a surprise the one I grabbed at random put Tesla above them, but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

The issue is that mikester thinks he's avoiding tracking, simply by not buying a Tesla, as if that brand is the only one tracking your movement, and subjecting you to onerous TOU's. They're all just shades of the same color, here.

 

[Rockbadchild]

within the term of used /privacy policy you often read “ we can changes this police without notice or notifying you “ so what the point you want the service signs here if no get off my lawn is your choice … but yes a website would be nice …

 

[Ken45101]

Good catch, Oak! Most such poles have actually put Nissan as worst, so it's actually a surprise the one I grabbed at random put Tesla above them, but that wasn't really the point I was trying to make.

The issue is that mikester thinks he's avoiding tracking, simply by not buying a Tesla, as if that brand is the only one tracking your movement, and subjecting you to onerous TOU's. They're all just shades of the same color, here.

I'm pretty sure my 2007 Chevy pickup is innocent of all charges. It has no cellular equipment nor any GPS. With modern truck prices, I'm pretty sure I will not be "upgrading" in my lifetime!

Ken

 

[WinterDeere]

I'm pretty sure my 2007 Chevy pickup is innocent of all charges. It has no cellular equipment nor any GPS. With modern truck prices, I'm pretty sure I will not be "upgrading" in my lifetime!

If you can make it last! That probably is close to the "golden age" for many vehicles, all the modern conveniences you want, without so much up the crap you never requested. I loved my 2005 Dodge Ram, which had a V8 paired with a manual transmission, and my own Bluetooth-capable stereo upgrade. Everything I needed, except a rear camera for backing up to trailer hitches.

Unfortunately, I rarely get more than 10-12 years out of a truck, before rust becomes a serious issue for both maintenance and cosmetics.

 

[Oaktree]

I also get frustrated by the constant updates.

My car app just updated it's terms of service. When I got the car, and loaded the App, I agreed to the terms of service then. It should not be legal to change the terms of service after using a product that you already agreed. I removed the App from my phone. They don't need to know all that data, and I don't need the App to drive the car.

I had that happen with my Roku box last summer. Box wouldn't work until I agreed to the new terms (I made it thru a half dozen pages of very-difficult-to-read (dark-ish gray text on a lighter gray background) boilerplate before I gave up and "OK"ed it. Kind of have you over a barrel, especially if you live where there's no off-air reception like I do.

I'm pretty sure my 2007 Chevy pickup is innocent of all charges. It has no cellular equipment nor any GPS. With modern truck prices, I'm pretty sure I will not be "upgrading" in my lifetime!

You're lucky if you live where rust isn't a big deal. As Winterdeere noted, here in the Northeast rust is what kills vehicles. 15 years is about it for a domestic/European make, Oriental ones a bit less.
Up until this year both of mine were in that age range (truck was an '01, Jeep an '06), but had to replace both this year. Both are GM vehicles, and even though I don't subscribe to Onstar, the equipment is still there and who knows what it reports to the mothership. Unfortunately, the fuse for it also controls other functions (rear window defrost in the truck), so pulling it isn't really an option. I suppose the Onstar box could be disconnected if you can find it, and assuming it doesn't control other, desirable features.

At least with most software devices (such as what buckeyefarmer described) you have the option of declining and not using the software. Where do you agree to the TOU on a vehicle? Now maybe if you buy new, one of the zillion forms you have to sign contains it, but what about if you buy used. I can say with complete certainty I never signed anything agreeing to be spied on when I bought either of mine.

In any event, I'm not holding my breath waiting for any meaningful relief from this from Uncle Sam.