Rant time !!! Bureaucrats at it again .... New home build

[ultrarunner]

I regularly attended council meetings and often spoke... sometimes it would be 2 am or later.

If chambers were filled the item would often be put over... after 3 or 4 times the number dwindles significantly... just the way it works.

Run-Off is a consideration everywhere I am... outright ban on disturbing soil half the year... then the permit expires and new fees are due...

We also have to pay a special assessment based on parcel size and these types of fees started about 10+ years ago...

A big one is being downzoned or new setbacks... residential zoned property is often not buildable under the new restrictions... making existing more valuable... especially homes near water.

If I knew then what I know now....

I'm glad you posted.

 

[Navvet]

But that is why you have variation possible.

The septic is (or should be) inspected when installed and you have to have a permit with a drawing of what is being done. So that has nothing to do with the issue.

Yes, extensive inspections, design and engineering for the septic. My question is why does this count as disturbed land in the future. After it is in it's just an area of (much greener) grass, like the rest of the yard.

Regarding 20 ac v. 1 ac, yes it would depend on if it was 19 ac of swamp and 1 ac of "good" land. However the OP seems to suggest there is ZERO deviation. You get 1/2 ac of disturbance. Period. If the two lots are identical other than one is 1 ac and the other is 20 ac this is ridiculous. I guess it just means the house is going to have a full basement and two above ground stories so that you get more sq feet for the disturbance.

Also if you are building a pole barn with dirt floor can you argue the only ground disturbed is where the holes are dug for the posts?

And remember what I said above, any land disturbance is added to the total and accumulates in perpetuity. So if I want to put up a metal carport then I only need a zoning permit because the land under it is "Disturbed". This applies to everything you do .... carports, pole barns, decks, driveways etc....

There's 21,789 square feet in half an acre.
You've used/allotted 5500 so far.
You have 16,260 left.....

Plus driveways, parking pads, walkways, .... basically any gravel or other material you put down and change what is there naturally gets added to the cumulative total. We are still discussing the area of the private road that runs on my property.

 

[MossRoad]

I live on one acre. We have a 1350 sq foot house, a two car garage, a one car garage, a swimming pool, deck, patio, a huge garden, a septic system, fenced dog yard, and a 150' driveway and that doesn't even cover 1/4 of the total land, or less than half of one half of an acre.

Yes, your much longer driveway will throw you over the limit and you may have to hire the watershed engineer. It's no different than having to have stamped engineering on a building permit, or stamped septic from a licensed installer, or stamped well from a licensed installer, or stamped electrical from a licensed electrician, or stamped plumbing from a licensed plumber, or stamped HVAC from a licensed installer, etc..... many places require it.

 

[Oaktree]

The government never notifies anyone of a new law, rule or ordinance.
Not arguing right or wrong, just giving you some info....

Every municipality has a process for implementing new regulations. The one common thing is it cannot be done in private but they dont have to advertise it.

The leaders of the municipality hold public meetings to present, discuss and vote on new regulations and many other issues.

We have a county council of elected officials and the city I live in has a city council.

They both hold monthly meetings where this stuff is brought up.

Very few residents are involved or comment on proposals or issues.
In a city of 20 thousand only 15 people show up to the meetings.

We are fortunate in that the council is required to post the minutes of the meetings online.
So we just read the minutes and check the agenda on meetings to know if we need to go.

If you want to stay up to date, you have to get involved and seek out the information.

Local elections are very important to your daily life and attending meetings is the best way to get to know your representatives.

Nail hit on head. Get involved. Small (and not so small) towns are always looking for people to serve on committees, boards, etc. Yeah, it seems like it's the same ones all the time, but that's because most residents would rather sit at home and complain on message boards than get their hands dirty and contribute, even if it's only a few hours a month.

I don't know about yours or the OP's states, but here in N.H. changes to local regulations require at least one public meeting, and this meeting must be advertised at least 10 days in advance. Here, the courts have deemed that an ad in the local newspaper is considered sufficient legal notice...if you don't read the paper you might not know. It's a bit of a legal gray area if posting it on the town's website or some sort of social media is sufficient.
Most, if not all of these meetings are open to the public to begin with.

That having been said, many of these environmental-use regulations (especially wetlands-related) come from the state or Feds. Unfortunately, the higher the level, the less responsive to the public the government becomes.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are "good stewards of the land" but do not have the financial means and cannot afford to "suck it up" to improve their living conditions due to all the bureaucratic red tape and new regulations forced upon them in today's world. It's like, punish everybody for the misdeeds of a few! Plus a money making scheme with the abhorrently high fees for so many different permits.

I wouldn't say "punish everyone" as much as making rules that apply to everyone. As others have noted, many/most of these rules were put in place because of past abuses...by large-scale developers and "mom & pop" alike. If the OP has the resources to build a 4500sf house with a 1000sf garage, he's got the resources to do it right. We're clearly not talking about someone who's barely getting by.

I don't like heavy-handed authorities any more than anyone else here, but it's not 1910 any more...the country's a lot more densely populated and stuff you could get away with back then you can't anymore.

I'd be curious how you would handle such a situation.

 

[Paddy]

We built on a lake, talk about hops to jump through. I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you are using some straw over dug ground and putting silt barriers. An inspector is not going to be pulling out a tape measure.
I'd think the worst case is you would need to hire an engineer for a site overview. Check with a local engineer and find out the cost. Likely under $500.

 

[deezler]

^ I'm with Paddy, you are probably (hopefully?) worrying too much about this.

A driveway is only 10' wide. Shoot, call it just 8' wide on your submitted plans. That would allow you a full half mile of driveway before you get to the limit. I'm assuming yours will be much shorter than that, right? Your initial building plans should easily come in under 1/2 an acre. Just get the house and barn built, inspected, property re-assessed, and then you hopefully never need to deal with the county/township again.

There's all sorts of strict building & development regulations in a majority of this country. But many rules can be bent or overlooked as long as you stay friendly with all your local township folks along the way. Don't head in there already pissed off at the rules. Go in friendly and naive, asking for help to make the property of your dreams - which will allow you to pay them lots of property taxes, haha!

 

[ultrarunner]

So much depends on the inspector...

Local Catholic Church got a permit to re-roof...

Inspector said it has been some time since inspection... where is you parish hall kitchen fire suppression?

The priest showed 3 current fire extinguishers... inspector said it must be automatic.

Insisted the gas range be immediately disconnected pending automatic fire suppression.

Bids coming in north of 30K...

This is a concrete block large kitchen on concrete floor... range hood and stove permitted and signed off in 1960... used once a month on average for parish outreach.

No way can this small congregation pay 30k to upgrade...

One of the volunteers suggest buying hot plates and convection ovens... which to me present more hazard than one gas range... that is spotless as is the range hood... this is not a commercial kitchen preparing food 12 hours day in and day out.

Inspector said call when it is corrected.

 

[cqaigy2]

^^Deezler
There you go, good advice. Don't be one of those that feel the need to take out your frustrations on the person, that is in the position to help you navigate thru the permitting process.

There have been many many people that have made a whole bunch of money off of lax or none existent regulations, so don't be raining on their parade.

 

[Navvet]

We built on a lake, talk about hops to jump through. I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you are using some straw over dug ground and putting silt barriers. An inspector is not going to be pulling out a tape measure.
I'd think the worst case is you would need to hire an engineer for a site overview. Check with a local engineer and find out the cost. Likely under $500.

Actually, before they will issue a CO I am required to have a detailed survey completed including all measurements for new and old work.

^ I'm with Paddy, you are probably (hopefully?) worrying too much about this.

A driveway is only 10' wide. Shoot, call it just 8' wide on your submitted plans. That would allow you a full half mile of driveway before you get to the limit. I'm assuming yours will be much shorter than that, right? Your initial building plans should easily come in under 1/2 an acre. Just get the house and barn built, inspected, property re-assessed, and then you hopefully never need to deal with the county/township again.

My driveway is just over 800' plus they are trying to decide if the need to include the portion of the private road that crosses my property. If I do the barn like I want, that will add another 700' to 800'.