Razor Blades and Wal Mart

[Bird]

Historically, this has not turned out well for the local consumer.

I'm certainly not disagreeing because I don't have the evidence one way or the other. Can you give some historical examples of the local consumer being hurt by the big companies? I can remember growing up in a town in which I think J.C. Penny dominated the clothing business. Then Sears Roebuck and Montgomery Wards dominated a lot of business, clothing, appliances, sporting goods, etc. K-Mart used to be big, but they're gone from our area. I guess I've seen a lot of "big" businesses go downhill and/or disappear. Studebaker and Packard are gone; are General Motors and Chrysler going to be next?

The theory of smaller local businesses, keeping the money locally, instead of it going to some "home office" makes sense to me, and I'm inclined to agree with you. But I'll have to admit, I can't really think of how the local consumer is affected. But I'm willing to learn if you can explain it to me.

 

[Western]

A thought on the economic part,
The average super center has between 200-350 employees, full time or part time. Most all, including the management live in or near their job. That's income put back into the local economy IF they spend in their town.

The average super center generates 2.5 million in sales per week, this usually is felt by each community in sales tax returns, not considering budget savings for shoppers.

Super centers pay ALLOT in taxes which are more or less depending on the local tax codes.

As far as employees goes, I see what ya'll are saying about getting help sometimes, it's not quite the quality you would get say in your $100 doctor visit = 1 minute with doc and 2 with the nurse.

And as far as the stuff they sell, I think allot of it is imported junk, but it is the consumer that drives the market and as a whole the american public wants "cheap" over quality.

I know it would take allot of small stores to generate the taxes and employee numbers, sure might be a little better pay but from the owners I have known that have little stores they struggle to pay good and keep the doors open even without a wally world near by.

I don't work for wally world or ever have, its just the math. Thank god, at least for now, its a free country to shop where ya like and spend your money where you like.

 

[NuBota]

This debate always drives me nuts. And this painting the big corporations as big, greedy, ogres just makes me shake my head. Businesses, big or small, are based on supply and demand and sell products and pay wages based on what the market will bear - it's that simple. Wally World exists because there is a market for it and a labor force available to it - otherwise they would still fail. The market for any business is also constantly changing - businesses, big or small, that don't adapt will fail. Plenty of examples of both. Most of these big businesses started as a small mom and pop - but a mom-and-pop that wanted to go big and was smart enough to adapt - we call them sell outs for meeting demand and doing it well? If a small business likes to be small, wants to stay that way, and be part of the community - then it's a death wish. It's a shame, but true. Blame the consumer - not the big corporations

I've been in the same town for 30+ years - saw it go from a rural town to mini-city. Big box, big mall and small biz exists just fine side by side - I still shop at most of the same mom-and-pops that I did 30 years ago and they still do a good business. But they had to adapt by changing product mix/suppliers, going to internet, etc - and almost all found a niche that big box doesn't compete in. I have seen as many chain stores fail as the small shops for the same reasons - not changing as the demographic changed

Don't get me wrong - I like the thought of the small community businesses, the old slice of Americana - but realize it is a dying thing as the population continues to explode. I hate the box stores not based on any principle, but because of the generally poor customer service and inconvenince.

Nice is nice - but business is business. What is left of our free market system still pretty much works. The big question is - is capitalism and a free market and the competition it requires still what this country wants?

 

[tallyho8]

I hate it when the laws are changed to allow a big box store to open in an area that it was not zoned for because of the claims that it will generate millions of dollars in sales taxes. This premise is completely false.

Imagine a town of 10,000 people each earning $10,000 a year. This town has $100,000,000 to spend each year. Just because a big box store opens in the town and has millions of dollars in sales does not mean that the town is making more revenue and collecting more taxes because the people are still spending all that they make and now they are probably even making less because many of them who used to own their own stores are now working for the box store and earning less. Sure the box store collects more sales taxes but all the other stores collect less meaning the same amount of sales taxes collected or less.

The only way a town, state or country can create more revenue in its principality and get wealthy is to collect the money from residents of other towns, states or countries as China is doing from the US with help from the big box stores.

 

[2manyrocks]

tallyho8 has a good grasp of the practical real world effect. The goal of a large chain store is to suck up money out of multiple communities and gather it for the benefit of the chain store's shareholders, with management increasingly finding ways to skim large amounts off the top for themselves. (Of course, they pay the PR department to convince you otherwise.)

I was an economics major (30 years ago), but I would tell you that people find ways to bend circumstances to their financial favor. The laws of supply and demand exist only in theory to explain economic behavior, but when real world circumstances are factored in, economic reality can differ substantially from economic theory.

For example: economic theory assumes that each consumer is rational and knows all market conditions and in a perfect world, a price point will be set by the market based on demand. In theory, each consumer will purchase at the lowest price point until enough demand is established to push the price to a higher point at which a lower demand will result. In reality, buyers don't know all the price points, some buyers are mislead by bad information, buyers don't have time to search out all available prices and some buyers just aren't smart. Moreover, once a monopoly or near monopoly is established in a market, monopolistic sellers are able to sell an inferior good at a higher price point because of their monopoly position, and not because of "laws" of supply and demand.

Bird, with this short introduction, then perhaps you will find the following article of interest to your question.


Breaking the chain: The antitrust case against Wal-Mart, By Barry C. Lynn (Harper's Magazine)

 

[Scooby074]

On a related note, Walmart is up before the Supreme Court of Canada.

One of their stores in Quebec went union (first store to do so in all NA) and they shut it down.
Theyve made arguments and now the judges are deciding. Should be interesting what they come back in a couple months.

The labour board of quebec has already sided in favour of the workers that basically Walmart closed the store to break the union . WalMart has been appealing. Im sure their pretty scared of the precedent this could set in Canada and the US.

There are several other WM stores that have gone union since the first, and im sure the members are actively waiting to hear the SCC verdict.


UPDATE 1-Workers assail Wal-Mart closing at Canada top court | Reuters

They've also closed a Walmart Lube shop because they went Union TheStar.com | Business | Wal-Mart to close unionized auto shop in Quebec

Seems like a trend??? Nothing like threatening the workers if they have the nerve to organize for fair wages.

Things like this, and the general ways Walmart conducts business with their suppliers, like "forcing" them to offshore production to meet walmarts price, and the way they treat employees are the primary reasons i avoid walmart if possible. I guess my conscience outweighs low prices in this instance.

 

[hunterridgefarm]

All I wanted was my razor blades

 

[Bird]

Bird, with this short introduction, then perhaps you will find the following article of interest to your question.

Interesting reading, I guess. So Barry Lynn is anti-Reagan Administration, anti-big business, and pro-union. I can't think of any way to respond that wouldn't be as purely political as his article is and politics is a prohibited topic on Tractorbynet.

On a related note, Walmart is up before the Supreme Court of Canada.

One of their stores in Quebec went union (first store to do so in all NA) and they shut it down.

So those who are pro-union hope Walmart loses. No surprises there. Maybe they can get lucky and take Walmart down as they've done to the American car manufacturers.

 

[MossRoad]

Maybe they can get lucky and take Walmart down as they've done to the American car manufacturers.

Your previous Studebaker reference comes full circle.

 

[MossRoad]

All I wanted was my razor blades

Hahahaha!!!! Kinda like a cocktail party... someone mentions anything and sooner or later the big 3 come up..... Politics, Religion and Finance