Oil & Fuel Reading Hydro Filter Innards?

[Denwa]

My B20 came with a busted PTO and I've got a minor case of paranoia going about possible collateral damage.

I'm sure that anytime something lets go in the tranny system there is likely to be some loose debris in the system. Before I understood the PTO situation I ran the tractor for a few hours. My concern is that stuff floating around in the hydro oil would have contaminated bearings and could lead to rapid and premature bearing problems. Please to give input on this issue.

Once I knew about the PTO issue I parked it and changed the hydro oil and filters. Oil is currently drained until I can pull the PTO and see how bad the damage actually is.

To get a feel for the debris level I cut apart the old filters to see how much junk was in them. On the material of the smaller filter up by the drivers seat I found virtually no indication of trouble, just one or two wee shiny flakes.
In the bigger filter there was a bunch of the wee shiny flakes, but nothing that you could feel.

So my questions are
1. What's normal?
2. Did I do real bad in driving the thing for those few hours?
3. Considering what I found, would using the tractor w/o fixing the PTO yet be a real bad thing to do?

TIA,
Dennis

 

[Baby Grand]

Denwa-

Don't beat yourself up - no use cryin' over spilt SUDT. You limited the hours and stopped using it after that. There's a good chance that the debris is in big enough chuncks that it all just sank to the bottom of the gear case and isn't going anywhere until you crack it open. I wouldn't push my luck by operating it any more on the odd chance something gets shaken loose and gets entrained between gear teeth or bearing surfaces. Then you'd have something to worry about.

The debris that you did find on the filters sounds like it could be the normal material that gets sucked into a filter - sometimes it's just crud left from the manufacturing processes. Or it could be something from the PTO, but either way, the filter did it's job. When you get it apart you will know what you have. Until then: be happy; don't worry.

-Jim

 

[KennyV]

Use it if you have a need without PTO... But while you have it empty, just as well replace the broke parts/pieces.
There is nothing in your transmission that, when shredded or shattered, will float. Even water will sink to the lowest point. It has to be very light to float in oil.
Parts and pieces will be in the bottom, you should have a removable cover, panel or pan to get to the PTO shaft mechanism...
as you have discovered there is a lot of filtration in that system, I would be much more concerned with liquid contamination than mechanical... KennyV

 

[nightowl490]

Stock up on filters and fluid! I personally never take a chance on a fitting or bearings or needle bearing floating around in the system. There are some heavy duty AND EXPENSIVE parts that can be affected. Fix your problem, PTO is fairly accessible and straight forward. Flush as much as you can, run it to warm then drain everything. Also to get a better look at the bigger peices run the out through a magnet to really see the fallout.

You be running hard and hot in no time!

 

[KennyV]

Dennis,
It's a shame you are so far from me... I would love to get your fluid if you change it again, that's just wasting 7 gallons of good fluid... your filters too except they will not fit my Kubota.

 

[Denwa]

Denwa-
... You limited the hours and stopped using it after that. There's a good chance that the debris is in big enough chuncks that it all just sank to the bottom of the gear case and isn't going anywhere until you crack it open. ...

The debris that you did find on the filters sounds like it could be the normal material that gets sucked into a filter - sometimes it's just crud left from the manufacturing processes. ...

-Jim

Jim,
For sure nothing major has happened, as things work fine other than the PTO growls and turns with no conviction. It did seem to me that the flakes I found were likely just normal gear shavings. Very common in a motorcycle tranny.

Hopefully all the damage is in the PTO locker and will be obvious. Waiting for time and weather to pull it apart, AND major cleaning project in the garage to make space for the tractor inside.

Thanks for the input,
Dennis

 

[Denwa]

Use it if you have a need without PTO... But while you have it empty, just as well replace the broke parts/pieces.
There is nothing in your transmission that, when shredded or shattered, will float. Even water will sink to the lowest point. It has to be very light to float in oil.
Parts and pieces will be in the bottom, you should have a removable cover, panel or pan to get to the PTO shaft mechanism...
as you have discovered there is a lot of filtration in that system, I would be much more concerned with liquid contamination than mechanical... KennyV

Kenny,
Oil is out and I will yank the PTO shaft and guts for inspection ASAP. Makes sense that metal chunks won't float, even in oil. If I don't do any wheelies or jumps with the machine the stuff *should* stay at the bottom ;' >

Thanks for the thoughts,
Dennis

 

[Denwa]

Stock up on filters and fluid! I personally never take a chance on a fitting or bearings or needle bearing floating around in the system. There are some heavy duty AND EXPENSIVE parts that can be affected. Fix your problem, PTO is fairly accessible and straight forward. Flush as much as you can, run it to warm then drain everything. Also to get a better look at the bigger peices run the out through a magnet to really see the fallout.

You be running hard and hot in no time!

Nightowl,
The chances...the chances... that's a biggie, but... Well, I've got to yank the PTO before I make any decisions. The magnet thing is a great idea. Wish I'd of thought of that when I first drained the oil.

Does anybody out there make magnetic drain plugs that will fit the tractors? Got them on my BMW motorcycle trannies, and they always tell a tale. Usually just some nondescript fuzzy stuff sticking to it. If you get slivers or chunks you know you have trouble brewing.

Thanks,
Dennis

 

[Denwa]

Dennis,
It's a shame you are so far from me... I would love to get your fluid if you change it again, that's just wasting 7 gallons of good fluid... your filters too except they will not fit my Kubota.

Kenny,
Sure, you betcha'. I can UPS it to ya'. Freight shouldn't be to much on a 5 gal pail of oil. ;' > Seriously, I think I'll figure out how to reclaim the stuff myself if I do a quick fluid change. The stuff too expensive to just run through.

I'll just get a big funnel and a pad of coffee filters to catch any bits.

Good concept,
Dennis

 

[KennyV]

I'll just get a big funnel and a pad of coffee filters to catch any bits.

Dennis...
Should work... but coffee filters are S L O W in passing oil... KennyV