Rear Blade Rear Blade quality
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Terry,
I'm planning on buying a blade soon, to move snow around this Winter, and I've got a couple of questions about what you said:
<font color=blue>Especially if you have a paved driveway. Once you set the depth of the blade with your rocker shaft, the blade is "fixed" for a certain depth. If the front tires hit something hard, the blade will be driven into the driveway - scraps and gouges. </font color=blue>
First, I had assumed you'd put the 3-point in float when you blade snow. Are you saying that you don't do that?
What do you mean by 'if the front tires hit something hard' - can't really picture what you are talking about.
I'd also like to hear what other people think about plowing snow on paved surfaces and whether they use skid shoes or not . . .
Thanks.
Rob
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Wheeldog on 11/01/01 06:58 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
I'm planning on buying a blade soon, to move snow around this Winter, and I've got a couple of questions about what you said:
<font color=blue>Especially if you have a paved driveway. Once you set the depth of the blade with your rocker shaft, the blade is "fixed" for a certain depth. If the front tires hit something hard, the blade will be driven into the driveway - scraps and gouges. </font color=blue>
First, I had assumed you'd put the 3-point in float when you blade snow. Are you saying that you don't do that?
What do you mean by 'if the front tires hit something hard' - can't really picture what you are talking about.
I'd also like to hear what other people think about plowing snow on paved surfaces and whether they use skid shoes or not . . .
Thanks.
Rob
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Wheeldog on 11/01/01 06:58 PM (server time).</FONT></P>
OP
Anonymous Poster
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in the market for a rear blade myself---leaning towards KK heavy duty. Very heavy, with the best looking moldboard support i've seen in a medium/heavy duty blade. Check it out on the kk website - click on the PDF file.
As far as mark up by dealers-- I have two Woods dealers in spitting distance. I went to one & priced an RB72 -- $478.
Next day went to other dealer -- he quoted $387, both new. When I asked him how he is selling for a lot less than the guy 15 minutes away he said, "I'd love to charge list but I won't stay in business" Kicker is, the cheaper guy moves much less inventory.
Morals of story - Dealers don't sell for a loss; list price is nowhere near the dealer's cost; and there is always someone ready to deal.
Real kick in the butt - I'm not a fan of Woods implements.
As far as the guy who said implements in his part of the country are more expensive. In some industries manufacturer's set list price as a maximum price, regardless of geography so their equipment stays competitive in the market. If you have a local dealer boning you because he's the only game in town, I would call the manufacturer, they might be very interested.
Just to spite the guy I would pay a little freight and buy online.
As far as mark up by dealers-- I have two Woods dealers in spitting distance. I went to one & priced an RB72 -- $478.
Next day went to other dealer -- he quoted $387, both new. When I asked him how he is selling for a lot less than the guy 15 minutes away he said, "I'd love to charge list but I won't stay in business" Kicker is, the cheaper guy moves much less inventory.
Morals of story - Dealers don't sell for a loss; list price is nowhere near the dealer's cost; and there is always someone ready to deal.
Real kick in the butt - I'm not a fan of Woods implements.
As far as the guy who said implements in his part of the country are more expensive. In some industries manufacturer's set list price as a maximum price, regardless of geography so their equipment stays competitive in the market. If you have a local dealer boning you because he's the only game in town, I would call the manufacturer, they might be very interested.
Just to spite the guy I would pay a little freight and buy online.
snowman
Gold Member
I'm curious about that comment regarding the paved driveway too.
I purchased a Woods RB60 ($405 includes 7% tax) this summer mainly for snow removal on my paved driveway. It does not have shoes available for it (if I wanted to put them on, I'd have to drill holes in the blade).
My intention this winter was to simply drop and drag it on the driveway, as I want it to scrape up any hardpacked snow and ice that I can't get with my front mount blower. In other words, I wouldn't want shoes for snow removal on the pavement, as the shoes would not allow the blade to scrape it.
I don't think that the blade will scrape or gauge the pavement, as it will always be in contact with the pavement to begin with (versus riding on shoes and maybe coming across a rise in the pavement that is between the shoes which the blade would then "top off", but I don't think that would happen unless there was a huge amount of force).
It may be a different story if you're working on old pavement with alot of patches or potholes; in that case, the blade without shoes may catch on the edge of one of the patches or holes and then rip it up.
I purchased a Woods RB60 ($405 includes 7% tax) this summer mainly for snow removal on my paved driveway. It does not have shoes available for it (if I wanted to put them on, I'd have to drill holes in the blade).
My intention this winter was to simply drop and drag it on the driveway, as I want it to scrape up any hardpacked snow and ice that I can't get with my front mount blower. In other words, I wouldn't want shoes for snow removal on the pavement, as the shoes would not allow the blade to scrape it.
I don't think that the blade will scrape or gauge the pavement, as it will always be in contact with the pavement to begin with (versus riding on shoes and maybe coming across a rise in the pavement that is between the shoes which the blade would then "top off", but I don't think that would happen unless there was a huge amount of force).
It may be a different story if you're working on old pavement with alot of patches or potholes; in that case, the blade without shoes may catch on the edge of one of the patches or holes and then rip it up.
woodstock
Gold Member
Before the BX, with my old JD 316, I removed the shoes on the snowblower and allowed it to scrape the asphalt driveway clean.
This worked real good and after the first time blowing 1/2 a yard of gtavel on my neighbours lawn, he doesn't ask me to blow out his driveway anymore to save his back for playiing hockey.
.jpg)
<font color=red>Winnipeg, Manitoba</font color=red>
2001 BX2200 (50 hrs)
This worked real good and after the first time blowing 1/2 a yard of gtavel on my neighbours lawn, he doesn't ask me to blow out his driveway anymore to save his back for playiing hockey.
<font color=red>Winnipeg, Manitoba</font color=red>
2001 BX2200 (50 hrs)
DaveM
Silver Member
<font color=blue>"Let me know how the blade and skid shoes work out"</font color=blue>
Will do! Hopefully, that won't be for a month or so. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
I haven't seen the skid shoes either but am trusting they will be good since they're made by Tufline. I'm hoping they'll help me from clearing all the gravel off the driveway along with the grassy crown and spare some of the grass in the yard. I might not know the answer until next spring though. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dave
Will do! Hopefully, that won't be for a month or so. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
I haven't seen the skid shoes either but am trusting they will be good since they're made by Tufline. I'm hoping they'll help me from clearing all the gravel off the driveway along with the grassy crown and spare some of the grass in the yard. I might not know the answer until next spring though. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dave
gerard
Veteran Member
I plow a combination of older blacktop and gravel + I push the snow onto my lawn. For that reason I can't use the blade without shoes unless I want to have no grass in the spring, a lot of gravel where I didn't want it, and a lot of torn up blacktop. IF you have a new, perfectly flat driveway and are NOT going to push onto your lawn, you can get by without shoes. Personally I think they're well worth the cost and it gives you the option. (I also had to spread about 100 yards of sand 1.5 inches thick on an 80 x 200ft area for a horse arena. I set the shoes 1.5 inches high and the place looked like a pool table when done. Try doing that without skid shoes!)
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
Wheeldog,
What I mean by hitting something hard is that if your front roll over some frozen snow a couple of inches thick the front end will lift up and push the implement down if it is set at a particular depth.
Now I show my ignorance of 3pt hitchdom (newbie, be somewhat kind). I can float my 3pt hitch? I don't remember reading about that in my JD 4100 manual. Now that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, I haven't stumbled on to it or had it explained to me. Woo-who!!! Something else I can do? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
A neighbor plowed my drive last with a rear blade and he scrapped off some of the driveway sealer. So, I know that things can happen. Also, my driveway has bumps and dips and D9 track impressions. It is not your tradional driveway. It was done with road millings which were rolled. Millings are the waste when they grind down asphalt roads with those big machines.
Hope this answers your questions.
Terry
What I mean by hitting something hard is that if your front roll over some frozen snow a couple of inches thick the front end will lift up and push the implement down if it is set at a particular depth.
Now I show my ignorance of 3pt hitchdom (newbie, be somewhat kind). I can float my 3pt hitch? I don't remember reading about that in my JD 4100 manual. Now that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, I haven't stumbled on to it or had it explained to me. Woo-who!!! Something else I can do? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
A neighbor plowed my drive last with a rear blade and he scrapped off some of the driveway sealer. So, I know that things can happen. Also, my driveway has bumps and dips and D9 track impressions. It is not your tradional driveway. It was done with road millings which were rolled. Millings are the waste when they grind down asphalt roads with those big machines.
Hope this answers your questions.
Terry
Terry,
Well, I may be confusing myself here. I had thought that you'd set the toplink to get the correct angle of cut for the blade, then just drop the 3ph down so the blade was fully resting on the ground (plus a little extra to follow any dips, etc.). In truth, I think the 3ph is always in float, unless you have a setup that has down pressure (and none of the compacts do, that I know of). That's partly why I asked you about hitting something with the front and having it force the blade into the ground - I think that happens to some extent, but not as if it is rigid.
After I've gotten through typing all this, my final statement: Never mind! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Take care.
Rob
Well, I may be confusing myself here. I had thought that you'd set the toplink to get the correct angle of cut for the blade, then just drop the 3ph down so the blade was fully resting on the ground (plus a little extra to follow any dips, etc.). In truth, I think the 3ph is always in float, unless you have a setup that has down pressure (and none of the compacts do, that I know of). That's partly why I asked you about hitting something with the front and having it force the blade into the ground - I think that happens to some extent, but not as if it is rigid.
After I've gotten through typing all this, my final statement: Never mind! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Take care.
Rob
OP
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Rob,
If you have new, smooth, flat blacktop... you could get by without the "skid-shoes"...until...
The ground freezes, covered with snow, underground heaves...a part of blacktop bumps up or buckles {sight-unseen... under the snow} and as soon as that moldboard hits that spot... the blacktop peels back like a banana peel.../w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
Of course, all this time, you're happily going forward, not seeing any of this occur until you glance back and see black snow... /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
I tend to look at skid shoes like a shear bolt... cheap insurance.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
If you have new, smooth, flat blacktop... you could get by without the "skid-shoes"...until...
The ground freezes, covered with snow, underground heaves...a part of blacktop bumps up or buckles {sight-unseen... under the snow} and as soon as that moldboard hits that spot... the blacktop peels back like a banana peel.../w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
Of course, all this time, you're happily going forward, not seeing any of this occur until you glance back and see black snow... /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
I tend to look at skid shoes like a shear bolt... cheap insurance.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
John,
Good point. We've got some good spots and some bad spots in the driveway, and it doesn't exactly resemble a pool table top.
My problem (?) with the shoes is this: I don't want to leave any snow down - I can just see leaving a nice little skim coat of snow that will freeze up overnight and then we've got ourselves a skating rink. Is this not a problem with the skid shoes and asphalt?
Rob
Good point. We've got some good spots and some bad spots in the driveway, and it doesn't exactly resemble a pool table top.
My problem (?) with the shoes is this: I don't want to leave any snow down - I can just see leaving a nice little skim coat of snow that will freeze up overnight and then we've got ourselves a skating rink. Is this not a problem with the skid shoes and asphalt?
Rob
Leaving a little snow (1/4" or so) on the driveway shouldn't be a problem. The sun will melt it away during the day, leaving a dry drive way by night. Grading right on asphalt or even concrete is asking for damage.
I think I'm going to build some adjustable casters for my blade.
I think I'm going to build some adjustable casters for my blade.
OP
Anonymous Poster
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<font color=blue>...Is this not a problem with the skid shoes and asphalt?...</font color=blue>
No different than the state or county snow plow trucks with their skid shoes...or using your old snow shovel...
Usually within the first 30 minutes after plowing, that top ~1/8" thin layer usually dissipates...most of the time, you wouldn't realize you even were using the skid shoes... that's how clean it really it.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
No different than the state or county snow plow trucks with their skid shoes...or using your old snow shovel...
Usually within the first 30 minutes after plowing, that top ~1/8" thin layer usually dissipates...most of the time, you wouldn't realize you even were using the skid shoes... that's how clean it really it.../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
njrqs
Veteran Member
Wheeldog
That's right, once you drop any 3PL implement onto the ground, there is no down pressure on it, and it will "float" up.
Just like when you park your tractor and drop the hydraulics, you can lift the arms up no problems.
Cheers
<font color=blue>Neil from OZ.</font color=blue>
That's right, once you drop any 3PL implement onto the ground, there is no down pressure on it, and it will "float" up.
Just like when you park your tractor and drop the hydraulics, you can lift the arms up no problems.
Cheers
<font color=blue>Neil from OZ.</font color=blue>
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
njrqs,
<font color=blue>That's right, once you drop any 3PL implement onto the ground, there is no down pressure on it, and it will "float" up.</font color=blue>
This is still a little confusing to me. With a blade or plow, it may float. However, it will begin to "sink" into whatever material is under the implement. In other words, without skid shoes, casters, etc., a blade will more than likely dig into the surface.
Or then again, maybe I just don't understand the mechanics of the 3pt hitch and implement usage. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
Terry
<font color=blue>That's right, once you drop any 3PL implement onto the ground, there is no down pressure on it, and it will "float" up.</font color=blue>
This is still a little confusing to me. With a blade or plow, it may float. However, it will begin to "sink" into whatever material is under the implement. In other words, without skid shoes, casters, etc., a blade will more than likely dig into the surface.
Or then again, maybe I just don't understand the mechanics of the 3pt hitch and implement usage. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
Terry
snowman
Gold Member
In terms of the blade "sinking" into the material, it all depends on how soft the material is and how angled you have the blade.
When I used my blade for landscaping this summer, it generally would not dig into the grass if I ran it over the lawn. It would, of course, level off any peaks or mounds. If I angled or tilted the blade, then it would dig in more.
Even using it to level dirt piles, I would have to make a number of passes to get the dirt scrapped down to the level that I desired.
Many times, the tractor (B7500) would get bogged down by the bite that the blade took, and I'd have to lessen the bite.
I think that is the key to using the blade on a good paved surface for snow removal. If the blade is either perfectly straight or angled back a bit (ie: the top link lengthened), I doubt that you would dig up the asphalt. Even if it did start to grab a solid piece of asphalt, I think that the combination of the tractor moving slowly and the wheels already being on a slick surface (snow/ice) will prevent any large chunks of the driveway from being ripped up (because the tractor would end up stopping).
I guess I'll find out after the first snow.
When I used my blade for landscaping this summer, it generally would not dig into the grass if I ran it over the lawn. It would, of course, level off any peaks or mounds. If I angled or tilted the blade, then it would dig in more.
Even using it to level dirt piles, I would have to make a number of passes to get the dirt scrapped down to the level that I desired.
Many times, the tractor (B7500) would get bogged down by the bite that the blade took, and I'd have to lessen the bite.
I think that is the key to using the blade on a good paved surface for snow removal. If the blade is either perfectly straight or angled back a bit (ie: the top link lengthened), I doubt that you would dig up the asphalt. Even if it did start to grab a solid piece of asphalt, I think that the combination of the tractor moving slowly and the wheels already being on a slick surface (snow/ice) will prevent any large chunks of the driveway from being ripped up (because the tractor would end up stopping).
I guess I'll find out after the first snow.
OP
Anonymous Poster
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Rear Blade-Top-links & skid shoes
<font color=blue>...If I angled or tilted the blade, then it would dig in more...</font color=blue>
The Top-Link adjustment is one of the keys to a number of implements... adjusting the pitch effects how aggressive the unit is whether it's a rear blade, plow, or boxblade...etc.
So disregard the float or no float aspect of the 3-point hitch arms for a moment... if you have that top-link adjusted within a certain range and you have an el cheapo 3-point rear blade hooked up that only weighs say 150 lbs... you can still peel up that blacktop/asphalt in a blink of an eye...
Another way of looking at "skid shoes" is how they work on a tiller...
So depending on what implement they are used on... they provide a height or depth adjustment...
<font color=blue>...If I angled or tilted the blade, then it would dig in more...</font color=blue>
The Top-Link adjustment is one of the keys to a number of implements... adjusting the pitch effects how aggressive the unit is whether it's a rear blade, plow, or boxblade...etc.
So disregard the float or no float aspect of the 3-point hitch arms for a moment... if you have that top-link adjusted within a certain range and you have an el cheapo 3-point rear blade hooked up that only weighs say 150 lbs... you can still peel up that blacktop/asphalt in a blink of an eye...
Another way of looking at "skid shoes" is how they work on a tiller...
So depending on what implement they are used on... they provide a height or depth adjustment...
gerard
Veteran Member
Re: Rear Blade-Top-links & skid shoes
The weight of the blade you're using is going to be a big factor in how much damage you do to your driveway if you don't use shoes. A medium blade will still peel up blacktop if you have any dips or high spots. The shoes can be adjusted very minutely by using washers as spacers (1/16" adjustment per washer) and even more finely tuned by shortening/lenghtening your top link which makes the blade "roll" forward or backward on the shoes so you actually have infinite adjustment. In 4 wd with rear chains and a 7ft medium duty blade I haven't caught anything yet that stopped the tractor and a high spot definitely wouldn't do it, the blacktop would definitely lose that battle! (I Like the post that equated them to shear bolts - cheap insureance and makes the implement a lot more versatile.) (I'm still kicking myself in the a*& for not getting the guage wheels on the york rake for the same reason)
The weight of the blade you're using is going to be a big factor in how much damage you do to your driveway if you don't use shoes. A medium blade will still peel up blacktop if you have any dips or high spots. The shoes can be adjusted very minutely by using washers as spacers (1/16" adjustment per washer) and even more finely tuned by shortening/lenghtening your top link which makes the blade "roll" forward or backward on the shoes so you actually have infinite adjustment. In 4 wd with rear chains and a 7ft medium duty blade I haven't caught anything yet that stopped the tractor and a high spot definitely wouldn't do it, the blacktop would definitely lose that battle! (I Like the post that equated them to shear bolts - cheap insureance and makes the implement a lot more versatile.) (I'm still kicking myself in the a*& for not getting the guage wheels on the york rake for the same reason)
snowman
Gold Member
Re: Rear Blade-Top-links & skid shoes
It may be that the blade I have (Woods RB60) is deemed to be medium to light duty.
I say that because Woods does not offer shoes for this model, but does offer them for all of the larger models (RB72). My interpretation of that (not offering them) is that they aren't necessary (even though they may be convenient).
There aren't any holes to put the shoes on, so I'd somehow have to rig up some type of "clip ons". I would think that Woods would have allowed for them on this model blade if they were necessary.
It may be that the blade I have (Woods RB60) is deemed to be medium to light duty.
I say that because Woods does not offer shoes for this model, but does offer them for all of the larger models (RB72). My interpretation of that (not offering them) is that they aren't necessary (even though they may be convenient).
There aren't any holes to put the shoes on, so I'd somehow have to rig up some type of "clip ons". I would think that Woods would have allowed for them on this model blade if they were necessary.
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
Re: Rear Blade-Top-links & skid shoes
snowman,
I would image that you could buy the shoes for the larger models and perform some field engineering to the smaller blade. I was hoping to get mine done this weekend but my welder had an appointment with some friends at the local watering hole on Saturday evening and had to cancel out on the work on Sunday. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif However, the RB60 I have performed very well this weekend cutting in, leveling, and moving lots a material for my friends new driveway around his house. Didn't get any pictures. Try to next weedend.
Terry
snowman,
I would image that you could buy the shoes for the larger models and perform some field engineering to the smaller blade. I was hoping to get mine done this weekend but my welder had an appointment with some friends at the local watering hole on Saturday evening and had to cancel out on the work on Sunday. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif However, the RB60 I have performed very well this weekend cutting in, leveling, and moving lots a material for my friends new driveway around his house. Didn't get any pictures. Try to next weedend.
Terry
