Rear Hyd Remote stuck

[coosa]

I hooked up the rear blade on my 5075e last weekend and found that one of the rear hyd is stuck. The tractor came with only one rear remote from the factory, so I had the dealer install a second one for operation of this blade. It's the only equipment I own that uses the rear remotes, so it hadn't been used since April. The factory remote works fine, the dealer installed one does not

I did some reading on the forums and found its a common problem when they aren't used often. I saw where other people have lightly tapped it and got it going. I've tried that with no luck. I've taken the connections loose from the lever and lightly tapped the cylinder connection and it didn't help it all. This was last weekend

I came back to the farm yesterday and after putting a lot of pressure on the lever, I got it to move enough that I felt the cylinder click and move all the way in one direction, but I couldn't stop it and couldn't get it to go the other direction. Several minutes of working it finally got it to click again and go all the way in the other direction. I was never able to get it to move again. I've sprayed most of a can of penetrating oil on it with no effect.

I really thought if ever got it to move that would fix it, but that hasn't been the case. I've spent about 6 hours fooling with it, and don't know what to try next. Any ideas would be appreciated

 

[beenthere]

I'm not following just what is "stuck". Can you throw up a pic that shows the part that is sticking? Sounds like the control valve for that set of remotes.
Maybe others will understand better and chime in.

 

[Gary Fowler]

One of my remotes levers stuck like that but I was able to just use more force to break it loose and it worked fine after that. I don't know if it was the remove valve itself or the linkage on mine.
I must remember to cycle them occasionally to prevent it from happening again.

 

[/pine]

I'm not 100% certain of exactly what is sticking either...but it sounds like it is the control valve lever for the second set of remotes...does that spool (valve) happen to have a stay or float detent?...if so the detent mechanism may be the culprit...often moisture will accumulate in the spool cap on the bottom of the valve...Remove the cap and inspect the lower end of the valve spool for rust etc....

The "click" could possibly be part of the detent if it exists...BTW if a detent exists and is malfunctioning causing the spool to stick...it (detent mechanism) can be removed and the remotes can be used...just without the detent...

Good Luck...

 

[coosa]

Thanks for the replies, and I'm sorry I did such a poor job of explaining the problem. I couldn't get photobucket to work when I made the post, but I just rebotted the phone and got the pic to load. Part of the problem is I don't know the right terminology.

The tractor has 2 hyd remote connections at the rear. Actually, it has 4, but each cylinder requires 2 lines. The remote with the 2 top connections is factory and works fine. Just under it is 2 more connections to operate a second cylinder that was added by the dealer. This is the one that will not move. I called it stuck, but maybe that is not the right way to describe it.

Both remotes are controlled by levers on the right side of the seat. There are 2 connections in the linkage between the levers and the cylinder. I have lubricated both and now have them off. The connections are not the problem.

The rear blade is also not the problem. I set it up so that angle us controlled by the top remote, the good one, and tilt by the bottom one. I temporarily switched them and set the tilt at a position so that I could use the blade and this worked fine. I reconnected it so that have angle control and the tilt is constant and have been working the tractor that way.

I crawled under the tractor and made this pic. The end of the hyd cylinder that doesn't have the connector hooked to it doesn't move. As I said in the first post, I managed to get it to operate twice, but that's been it.



It is really hard to get to it, but I think I could get a cable on it and reinstall the pin and pull it forward with a winch on my ATV. The last time it moved it went in so I think I could pull it out with the winch. The winch has a remote cord so I could operate it from the tractor seat and be careful on the amount of pressure applied. If that works, getting it to retract would be harder to accomplish, but moving it at all might loosen it up and make it start working. Bad idea?

Thanks for any help. Calling the dealer in would probably cost more than I paid to have the remote installed.

 

[countrybumpkin]

First that's a hydraulic valve not a cylinder, if it's stuck like you say then the valve needs to be removed and taken apart, my guess is it has a piece of debris stuck in it, either a metal shaving or piece of O ring. If you start forcing it you more than likely will do more damage than good. Does that valve have a float position or a detent position, when the valve worked before would it lock the handle in either the forward or back position, if so that could be the problem. If so then you possibly can just remove the cap that holds the detent parts and fix with out removing the entire valve. Do some searching on you tube stackable hydraulic valves and how hydraulic valves work. That will give you a good understanding and help you figure out what's wrong.

 

[coosa]

Thanks for the ideas and correcting my poor terminology. I am not aware of it having a float position. The manual doesn't mention it for the factory one, and I doubt this one has anything extra. All I have ever used either remote for is the rear blade, adjusting angle and tilt with them, so I don't know anything about it more than that. The factory valve has a different feel to it than the dealer added one. I can barely apply pressure to the factory one and the implement will move slowly, open it up harder and it moves faster. The dealer added one has a distinctive click when it engages, and it's either wide open or nothing.

The dealer added remote started leaking the first day I had it and I lost braking power. The tech that came out said that they let the most inexperienced man in the shop put these on and he had cut an o-ring. He fixed it and it worked 4 years. I think it's beyond my mechanical ability to take it apart.

 

[beenthere]

coosa
Don't feel intimidated by not knowing the terminology.
What you show in the pic, as countrybumpkin says, is the valve and the shiny cylinder showing is part of the spool. Looks like you have a couple cap screws that hold the cap that after cleaning the area real well, you may be able to pull out that spool and check the o-rings. Or find someone who knows how to help you do that.
Others here may be able to assist that operation.

 

[coosa]

coosa
Don't feel intimidated by not knowing the terminology.
What you show in the pic, as countrybumpkin says, is the valve and the shiny cylinder showing is part of the spool. Looks like you have a couple cap screws that hold the cap that after cleaning the area real well, you may be able to pull out that spool and check the o-rings. Or find someone who knows how to help you do that.
Others here may be able to assist that operation.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm a lot more intimidated by ignorance of hyd than my ignorance of terminology. . I owned a D3 dozer and kept it up for 6 years, and only had to call in help twice. Once was when the torque converter went out, but thankfully the 6 month warranty the seller gave me covered that. Another time I could not crank it after it set up for a month. I have put on 3 hyd cylinders on it, but it was all easy to see and didn't require much knowledge to do. Replacing some of the lines was difficult, but again, it was just a matter of wrestling them into place. I know enough about hyd to know that you can get seriously hurt if you don't know what you are doing.

Just figuring out how to get to the valve is more than I know how to do. Do I need to remove the fender to get to it? I don't think there is any way in the world I can get to it from underneath. I'm an old man with a bad back and have no helper. My arms are all beat up just from what I've already done.

I'm not looking for sympathy; just explaining why this job looks out of my league. . But maybe it's not. It would be an encouraging start if I could figure out how to get to the thing. I might could learn what a spool is, but my hands don't fit in that spot. By the way, I thought a spool is what held fishing line. . Thanks again

 

[Leejohn]

Reread post #4.

 

[KWentling]

Very, very important to clean it first and keep everything spotless. Dirt kills hydraulics. Clearances are VERY small so the slightest piece of crap can cause problems. That is likely the cause of this problem. Like was stated above, it might be a detent problem. You will probably end up pulling the spool out and correcting what ever is causing it to be tight. If it needs "polished" up, use very fine, 500 grit or finer paper and do not round over any corners. The sharp edges make it self cleaning so to speak. If there is a burr, use a fine stone to remove it. Then clean it throughly and oil it before reinstalling it.

 

[Zebrafive]

If these valves are stacked and held together by long bolts, it's possible the bolts were tightened too tight and this is causing the spool to bind.

 

[coosa]

Once again, I don't know the terminology and how it works well enough to tell you if they are stacked or not. It will be later in the week before I'll be at the farm again where the tractor is located. I'll try to clean it good and make pics and maybe you guys can advise me on my options. If I could just remove the valve I could take it somewhere to have it repaired if it's too much for me, and it probably is.

I got ready to leave the farm Saturday and when I went to put it under the shed the 3 point hitch lift wouldn't work. It's done this before and the manual did explain how to tighten the friction device. I think that's the problem again; if it isn't I may have major problems. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Don't worry about not knowing the correct terminology, we can help you learn what's what. If you can get some good pics that will defiantly help us give you some help. As for the 3pt not working, if the valve that is sticking is stuck one way or the other and trying to supply fluid to either of the remotes then it may have the fluid bypassing in the relief valve and this would effect the 3pt and make it not lift. Also if it is stuck and causing the fluid to bypass you do not want to run the tractor at all this way it can lead to damage in the hydraulic system.

 

[Zebrafive]

If your rear SCVs look like key 11 in the drawing (two side by side) with 3 bolts key 20 holding them together, if the bolts are too tight, they can cause the spool to bind. You want the minimum to keep them from leaking, 25-40lb ft of torque range.

I would loosen the three bolts, and torque to 25lb ft. See if that frees up number two. If they leak between each other tighten a little more.

 

[coosa]

Don't worry about not knowing the correct terminology, we can help you learn what's what. If you can get some good pics that will defiantly help us give you some help. As for the 3pt not working, if the valve that is sticking is stuck one way or the other and trying to supply fluid to either of the remotes then it may have the fluid bypassing in the relief valve and this would effect the 3pt and make it not lift. Also if it is stuck and causing the fluid to bypass you do not want to run the tractor at all this way it can lead to damage in the hydraulic system.

Would the FEL and the other SCV still work normally if that is what is happening? They do, and that and the fact that the lever that controls the 3 pt lift seems too easy to lift makes me hope that its just the friction device needs to be tightened. Thanks for the info.

 

[coosa]

Zebrafive, that looks like the correct drawing. I will clean it good and post some pics. Thanks for the help.

I finally got time to look over the manual again; it does look like it has a float position. I had just never used it because I have only the one piece of equipment that uses the remotes and the float position would have no use that I can see for the blade angle. If disabling the float would fix the issue then that's the thing to do.

 

[coosa]

I got to the farm this morning and adjusted the bolts on the rockshaft lever and it had no effect; the 3 pt hitch doesn't lift at all. So I guess the stuck valve is affecting it in some way. I'm attaching a few pics so you guys can see exactly how it is set up.

The 3 pt hitch has now quit working 3 times in the 4 years I owned it. The first time adjusting the friction bolts fixed it. The second event happened when I was discing and the lift just quit working. I thought it might be the friction again so I just kept running it, wanting to finish the job. After about 15 minutes it went back to working and has not failed again until this event.

I had another event of some kind with it last summer when the entire drive train started getting very hot. I drove it back to the house and completely lost all braking power just before getting there. The temp beside the pto shaft was 301. I let it sit an hour and it worked fine. I've always suspected it was one of those scv valves getting bumped by accident, but I am only guessing. I changed the hyd fluid and filter and it's worked normally until this latest incident.

I thought of unhooking the blade and running it some to see it the lift would start back working like it did before, but that sounds like a bad idea now. I'll wait and see if anyone has an idea of what I should do before calling the dealer. Thanks for any help!

Edit: Photobucket isn't working. I'll post this and try to add pics in the next post.

 

[coosa]

Is the bolt with the paper in it one of the ones that could be too tight?

 

[beenthere]

Yes, I believe those would be the ones.. and looks like the added valve was not painted green, may have been rusty, and may be the one needing some "overhaul" help... if loosening the cap screws (with the paper) doesn't help.
Removal would be disconnecting the hyd. lines, and removing the cap screws. Taking the end off that rusty one may reveal the problem.. but that is just a guess.