rear valve and lever control QUESTION for a newbie

amstell · Mar 22, 2005

Sorry for 1st grade question, BUT I'm buying a tractor for the first time.

I would like to know what is the purpose of the: REAR Remote Valves? and why would I need more than one?

Secondly:
why would I need more than one Remote Lever Control? It is used to raise and lower the pto. correct???

Lastly:
what are the: Two open-center, mid-mounted remote valves (Using a Joystick)?

These are options with most tractors, but I'm narrowing it down b/w New Holland ( TN60A 4wd ) and John Deere ( 5205 4wd )

thanks for the insight! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

jinman · Mar 22, 2005

Amstell, you really are a newbie aren't you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif That's okay. I'd suggest you find someone unbiased who will show you some of the "ropes" before buying a tractor. The dealers will all have their own agendas to suggest, but I think you need someone unbiased to show you around a tractor a little more before you "plunk down" your cash and end up with something you'll wish was different down the road. Here's a few answers to the questions you asked, but knowing that you asked these questions makes me believe that there are lots of others that you don't know enough to ask yet. Well... here goes:

1. The rear remote valves are additional controlled hydraulic connections for rear implements or accessories. One of the most popular add-ons is called Top and Tilt or T-n-T. This feature replaces the toplink of the 3PH with a hydraulic cylinder and the sidelink to the lift arms also with a hydraulic cylinder. That way you can adjust the side-to-side level and front to back pitch of your implement without getting off the tractor to do it manually. With the standard factory setup, all you can do is lift the 3PH, everything else has to be done manually. Also, some implements have a hydraulic cylinder for changing an angle or lifting the implement. How many hydraulic remotes you will need depends on what you intend to do with your tractor.

2. There will be a lever for each remote valve and one for the 3-point hitch. This allows full control of all hydraulics from the operator's seat.

3. The two open-center valves using a joystick are normally for a front-end loader. If the loader is removed, that joystick can also be used for other functions. The open-center valves allow fluid to pass through when the valve is not in use. This method allows valves to be ganged together easily. As long as the valves are used one at a time, you can put multiple control valves into the same open-center circuit. These circuits work well for hydraulic circuits that just position something rather than run a hydraulic motor or continually running device.

We all have to start sometime, Amstell, and I don't want to make you nervous, but I think you need to do a little more learning before making the decision on the tractors you are planning to buy. You might end up finding you need something totally different. Do you have a friend or neighbor who can help? Good luck. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

hhw · Mar 22, 2005

Amstell, Since your thinking about the JD, why not go to their web site and start exploring. There is a ton of info available there. You just have to play with it a little bit to get to it. I'm guessing NH has something similar available. I know you can look at specs, attachments, accessories and price on the JD site. They now have an "estimator" for the type of tractor suitable for your requirements. The important thing is you look for answers to questions now rather than later. Visit your dealer(s) listen to their pitch, do as much research as you possibly can and make your tractor purchase.

Indydirtfarmer · Mar 22, 2005

First, we'll answer the LAST question. The Mid-mount hydraulic hook-ups are there for a loader, should you elect to install one. The rear remotes are for hydraulic cylinders on impliments you MIGHT use on that tractor. (i.e., a wheel disc, hay baler, a log splitter, ect.) Some newre balers and such use MULTIPLE hydraulic circuits, requiring 2 (or more) remotes. You need seperate levers to control the individual circuits.

Hope this helps.....

amstell · Mar 22, 2005

Thanks guys for the replies. It really does help! My plans with this tractor were to mow thick brush, move some dirt/rock for the drive-way, to do some leveling and possible in the future log splitting. SO, I was looking at getting a Bush-Hog, Loader and a Box Scrape for now. Total, about 120 acres of land, with some of it a little muddy thats why I was thinking of 4WD instead of 2WD.

Does the number REAR Remote Valves have to equal the number of Control Levers (i.e. 2 RRV with 2 C. Levers)? So let me know what you think about the # of REAR Remote Valves and the Open Center, mid mounted Remote valves with Joystick, that I may need?

Also when should you upgrade the Hydraulic Gear Pump ex. 14.4-gpm to a 16.9-gpm pump?

thanks
Amstell

KiotiJohn · Mar 22, 2005

( Does the number REAR Remote Valves have to equal the number of Control Levers (i.e. 2 RRV with 2 C. Levers)? So let me know what you think about the # of REAR Remote Valves and the Open Center, mid mounted Remote valves with Joystick, that I may need?

Also when should you upgrade the Hydraulic Gear Pump ex. 14.4-gpm to a 16.9-gpm pump?
)
You will have a lever for each rear remote you have on the back of the tractor. It all depends on how many hydraulic implements you may wish to run as to how many rears you'll need. If you can spend the money, I'd go for at least two, that way you have them, and don't have to add them later when you decide you want to power more hydraulics at once.
The flow rate will determine how fast these implements respond. Any time I can get a higher flow rate, the better, because I'm going to get a faster response such as a loader that dumps and rollsback faster etc. On some implements that's not as critical, but for a loader, I want the fastest speed I can get. Even 16.9 is too low for some things such as a large Harley rake that needs a lot of flow to keep the pulverizer running fast through tough soil. Remember that the open center mid mount valve with joystick is for the loader, so you won't have more than one loader right? So you need one joystick for the loader. Of course, you may add something to your loader like a grapple, and you'll need some other type of controller for that. You won't probably need to know that much about these others until you have more experience and learn more about implements. You need to read everything you can on TBN in the Customization and build it yourself forums so that you can see what people are adding. I hope this is clear. John

755inNY · Mar 22, 2005

amstell,

There should be a control lever for each valve. There are 2 hydraulic outputs (usually quick disconnect couplers) associated with each valve. In the case of the joystick for front or mid mounted hydraulic outputs, the forward and back movement of the joystick controls one valve (up and down for the front end loader or FEL). The side to side movement controls the other another valve (curling or dumping the bucket of the FEL). The joystick can also control other front mounted implements such as a snowblower (raise/lower blower and rotate chute). This hydraulic circuit is typically referred to as a dual selective control valve or DSCV for short.

There can also be multiple outlets at the rear. Typically there is one pair controlled by a single valve with the lever mounted close to the drivers seat. This pair is called the 3rd selective control valve (SCV). There can also be a 4th and 5th SCV with associated couplers. The 4th and 5th SCV is usually controlled by the same joystick as used for the DSCV in the front. You can use either the DSCV or the 4th/5th SCVs at one time so there is a diverter valve that is used to select which couplers are controlled by the joystick. The diverter valve is typically actuated by an electric solenoid. There are many implements that can be controlled by the rear hydraulics. For instance a rear mounted snow blower will be raised and lowered by the 3 point hitch (3PH) and the chute rotation is controlled by the 3rd SCV. For the box blade you mentioned, the amount the blade digs into the ground is controlled by lengthening or shortening the top link of the 3PH. You can do this manually by getting off the tractor and rotating the top link or you can replace the top link with a hydraulic cylinder and control it from the operators seat using the 3rd SCV. Much more convenient. You can add hydraulic cylinders to each lift arm of the 3PH and control the tilt of the box blade using either the DSCV or the 4th/5th SCVs. The combination of the top link and lift arms controlled by hydraulic cylinders is called top and tilt or top-n-tilt or T-n-T.

Another set of hydraulic couplers at the rear is referred by various names such as Power Beyond. Power Beyond has no control valves. It simply provides hydraulic flow. It is used for attachments that have their own control valves such as a backhoe or wood splitter.

It is usually the most economical to have the control valves, couplers, Power Beyond, etc. installed at the initial purchase. Adding them later is always possible but will most likely cost more for installation labor.

Keep the questions coming and fill out your profile.

Jeff

amstell · Mar 23, 2005

So, for what I need and will be using the tractor for, does a NH TN60A 4WD or JD 5205 4WD with 2 Rear Remote Valves (for a Box Scrape and Bush Hog) and a Mid-Mount Valve with Joystick (for the Front-end loader) and a 16.9-gpm hyd. pump (or is the std. 12.4-gpm okay) sound right? I like the TN's and the 5005 series for the extra ground clearance. So am I big kid in a candy store and over-doing it or under-doing it? More power? Less power?

Thanks
Chris

KiotiJohn · Mar 23, 2005

( with 2 Rear Remote Valves (for a Box Scrape and Bush Hog) )
I'm sending you my phone number by private message. When you see the little flashing mail icon next to Main Index at the top, click on it. We need to talk. We haven't explained well enough to you about the rear remotes as is clear with this comment about rear remotes for a box scrape and bush hog, as neither of these uses hydraulics. I think I can help you better if you give me a call. Sending the PM now. John

jinman · Mar 24, 2005

( We haven't explained well enough to you about the rear remotes as is clear with this comment about rear remotes for a box scrape and bush hog, as neither of these uses hydraulics. )

John, we've been telling him TnT on the 3PH for boxblading is very nice. Also some large mowers use a hydraulic cylinder to raise and lower the tailwheels. I think it's possible that is what he meant by this comment, but I'm sure you can help clear up all issues if he calls you. What he needs is a good one-on-one tutorial session with a tractor walk-around, but I'd bet he knows a lot more after talking to you. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif