Regional tractor pricing

[AxleHub]

I hope your not talking about dealer markup! Reality is that on many deals your paying more in taxes than we're making in profit. Now at the vendor level, particularly on parts.. the increase has been dramatic. While some have outpaced others, every companies equipment has gotten a lot more expensive. You can chalk that up to many things, regulatory changes with Tier 4 have been huge, Steel costs are several times higher than they where 10-15 years ago.

I was a little dumbfounded by his comments also. Sure if you can get MSRP prices on equipment . . then the markup is "acceptable" . . . but when I talked to numerous implement dealers . . the only ones quoting MSRP were those not selling anything.

A parts desk and service dept. seems to be the items to keep dealers in business and especially now with small equipment selling and big equipment sitting . . I'd guess the volume of sales is the only thing to keep the sales dept. smiling.

 

[Fawken]

As consumers, I think national advertising with MSRP (like car companies) would help the credibility of saying that tractor mark-ups are not outrageous, but alas, you cannot even get accurate, on-line, cash, prices (excepting the Chinese brands). Speaking of Chinese brands and mark-up, everyone knows that a Nortrac is just a Foton with different paint. A couple of years ago my son went to China to check on delivered prices (crates of 4 units in 20 unit lots) of 30-50hp Fotons and Jinmas for a dealership not to be named. The delivered prices were LESS THAN HALF what Northern Tool is asking. If NT marks up 50%-60% why would not Kubota and the rest do likewise?

 

[AxleHub]

. . . .

 

[AxleHub]

As consumers, I think national advertising with MSRP (like car companies) would help the credibility of saying that tractor mark-ups are not outrageous, but alas, you cannot even get accurate, on-line, cash, prices (excepting the Chinese brands). Speaking of Chinese brands and mark-up, everyone knows that a Nortrac is just a Foton with different paint. A couple of years ago my son went to China to check on delivered prices (crates of 4 units in 20 unit lots) of 30-50hp Fotons and Jinmas for a dealership not to be named. The delivered prices were LESS THAN HALF what Northern Tool is asking. If NT marks up 50%-60% why would not Kubota and the rest do likewise?

Fawken, I believe your logic is seriously misdirected:

1. China's heavy industry efforts (cars and tractors and industial machinery) are heavily goverment supported . . this is not true of Japan, S. Korea, or Taiwan.

2. China utilizes a number of metals that are hazardous to produce or reduced in alloy content. The production of these metals reduces cost but is considered toxic to people and environments. Hence they can make things cheaper but at great people / enviromental cost.

3. Patent and trade/copyright laws are far different in China compared to other manufacturing countries . . they take ideas without paying.

4. There is a vast difference between china made goods for our manufacturers versus china made goods for their own chinese companies. What is that difference? Its their quality control vs our required quality control (or japan's or korea's etc..)

5. China is attempting to break into new markets. You do that with either great innovation, stunningly poorly paid labor, cheap materials, gov't funding, a very low price etc..

6. I would assume as in any business that sells some discount quality product as some of Northern's is - that china tractor's suffer from many customer related issues that requires lots of returns, breakage concerns, replacements, etc.. Your logic assumes Northern makes big profits . . I assume Northern has many extra costs and expenses in selling these products.

7. Assuming China's scenario is the same as it would be for Kubota, Massey, Yanmar, etc.. is not logical in any concept. They all have reputations to protect, longer warranties to fulfill, higher quality steel, engine design, and are not harming their people in the production process. They also all have very large U.S. based locations for sub and final assembly and some product manufacture in the US as well. Lastly . . their products come from legitimate copyright and patent sources and they are not gov't subsidized either.

I could say more but 7 should be ample.

 

[Fawken]

OOOPPSS! I forgot to say, "The opinions expressed herein are my own, and do not in any way represent those of the forum management or members. Further, as such, they are not intended to denigrate any specific brand of tractor or the devout owners of said machines- or any other religion for that matter. Caveat Emptor.

 

[AxleHub]

OOOPPSS! I forgot to say, "The opinions expressed herein are my own, and do not in any way represent those of the forum management or members. Further, as such, they are not intended to denigrate any specific brand of tractor or the devout owners of said machines- or any other religion for that matter. Caveat Emptor.

Fawken, I'm not associated with any dealership, ownership, or brand. However in any debate or situation of expressing opinions I believe its important to have fairness and support for opinions. You implied dealers have big markups and you also implied that there is big profits for manufacturers and dealers just because of a china company. Again, if you have reasons that help you form that opinion . . then bring them on. However don't get touchy if someone offers reasons for other opinions.

Sometimes I express opinions that are not popular . . but I always try to be fair.

In fairness today . . I believe there are many dealers that are struggling. They have a large investment in time and money in their dealerships. Many are long held family operations. Yet with all that risk and invested capital . . they struggle long hours to make a somewhat reasonable living until farm conditions improve. Their financial risk is paying them little while they work long hours to create "employee" income.

Big franchise dealership chains threaten their continuation . .yet they continue on because they are a benefit to many long time customers. And their challenge is to find sales people who have that same sense of customer dedication.

 

[NC419N]

In fairness today . . I believe there are many dealers that are struggling. They have a large investment in time and money in their dealerships. Many are long held family operations. Yet with all that risk and invested capital . . they struggle long hours to make a somewhat reasonable living until farm conditions improve. Their financial risk is paying them little while they work long hours to create "employee" income.

Big franchise dealership chains threaten their continuation . .yet they continue on because they are a benefit to many long time customers. And their challenge is to find sales people who have that same sense of customer dedication.[/QUOTE]

I could not agree more!!! In just the last few years there have been 2 such Family Dealerships close their doors. The single biggest reason in their cases was the burden put on them by the Manufactures to do business "their way" We as consumers a lot of times don't help because most folks only look at price and nothing else. There are many ingredients in any business but the bottom line is PROFIT.
AxleHub hit the nail on the head for the biggest part and we as customers have to realize the Facts that id we don't support Local Business the end result will be fewer sources close to you and long wait times for your quality parts or equipment.

 

[AxleHub]

A few years ago I wrote about my experience that year at the Minnesota State Fair (I go every year). Its a huge and long tradition that packs in virtually all brands of lawn and farm equipment as well as a couple million people.

At the cub cadet pavilion I met a dealer . . 1 of 5 that had been a dealer of yanmar/cc for many years. Except that year they all had their Yanmar parts taken away by yanmar because a large operation wanted to expand to 6 more locations with yanmar to form an regional. So no compensation . . no anything . . 5 dealers just left high and dry with expensive high Yanmar signs to remove and parts and customers both in inventory. And yes . . they'd sold decent yanmar numbers in their operations but it didn't matter. Their volume and dedication were fine . . In fact they'd apparently been increasing their yanmar side of activity.

What's the point? Just like the family farm . . many family owned businesses ( implement dealers etc.) face frequent risks to their future . . even when they do everything right.

 

[GuidoSarducci]

IMHO, they're ALL over-priced. I would love an LS G3033, but darned if I'll take a second mortgage out to get one. The mark-up is unbelievable and I know I'll catch **** for saying so because so many dealers and salesmen post here. I think things got out of hand in the early 80's when so many yupees started moving to hobby farm/ranches near big cities. When I got my little machine in 1983 a good size Ford was a 1900 and with a loader and box blade you were looking at around $8500, if memory serves. That was about 1/2 the cost of a good, base model, 1/2 ton pick-up with air and AM/FM. So, you would think a 25-35 horse tractor should still be about half as much as a new 1/2 ton truck. Not the case. Maybe if the Chinese get their act together they'll be some actual competition and prices will plummet.

I would say a 25-35hp tractor is still 1/2 the price of a new pickup. I bought my 3038E for 17k, a new 4x4 pickup costs mid 30's. It isn't until you start throwing in all the bells and whistles that the pricing gets out of whack.
It's probably just me but I really don't see the advantage in the Deere "R" models (for compact tractors), it dramatically increases the price in exchange for little creature comforts.

 

[Got2BTru]

New to the forums, but I would argue the cost of a pickup has gone up ridiculously as well. My 2013 Silverado Ext cab was stupid expensive...it's a TRUCK! I'm looking at 45-50HP tractors currently. Checked out a 5010 HST Mahindra today. I'm interested to see how much of a "regional" difference you're talking about now...