Replacement Window Help

   / Replacement Window Help #1  

RBrown

Bronze Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2000
Messages
62
Location
Illinois
Tractor
Kubota B3030 Cab & RTV 900
I realize this is a bit off track but I am going to be installilng replacement windows within the next six months and I am looking for some brand feedback. I have had zero luck with three different brands of solid vinyl windows. All three either separated at the seems or leaked the argon gas out and crystalized imbetween the panes. So solid vinyl is definitely out. I think I have it narrowed down to Pela or Crestline. Pela is about $80 more expensive per window and offer solid wood contruction with aluminum clad exterior. The Crestline window offer a vinyl clad exterior and have a larger gap between panes, ie. more insulation. However I am very unsure of the Crestline name. Any help that you all can provide would be much appreciated on either brand or some other brand that you recommed. If Crestline offers a good window then I can save over $1,000, but I hate to regret my savings 5 years down the road.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #2  
I will be watching this post because I also need to replace windows. But I may not be using replacement types since I am also going to replace the siding and may just change a few window sizes. But then maybe I won't since I will then have to do inside work also. So, this is a good forum to follow. Also, Anderson makes replacements now... I am about as confused about windows as I am about ditial cameras. Sooo many to choose from....
 
   / Replacement Window Help #3  
Rob,

I can't speak directly about the costs, but some other brands that you might consider could include Marvin, Anderson and Weathershield. All of these are popular, quality windows. If I had to rate these in relation to quality and cost with the two brands you've been looking at, from best down I'd say Pella, Marvin, Anderson, Weathershield and Crestline in that order.

My wife designs homes for people, and unless the owner wants a specific brand, she always recommends Marvin first and then Anderson. She says that these windows, in her opinion, offer the best quality at the best price.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #4  
I just put in over $20k worth of Marvin windows, and the windows are quite good energy-wise. However, the mistakes made by the company have been a pain in the neck. The sliding doors came with the wrong tint. They replaced them, but then I had to hire the painter back to do the staining and finishing again. The windows came with factory residue (greasy hand prints, silicone seal from under the suction cups used to move the glass around in the factory, and other debris that will not come off with either alcohol, acetone, or gasoline) on the outside glass that now they say I need to use xylol to clean them. There are two sash's with finger prints BETWEEN the sandwiched glass panels. The company is going to replace them, no problem for them. After they are replaced, I need to have the painter back to stain and finish the new sash's, or learn to do it myself (which I don't want to do, but may anyway).
Needless to say, Marvin is not at the top of my list for windows.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #5  
Boy, I'm sorry to hear you've had those problems. We've never had those kinds of problems. At least, to my knowledge.

In fact, the house we built 12 years ago we spec'd Anderson windows in. These windows were the top of the line window that they offered. Well, they're a well built window, but when we get high winds, they whistle like you wouldn't believe! We went back and forth with the builder and Anderson, and of course, each one pointed at the other. We finally got Anderson to cover half the cost of replacement windows, and we chose Marvin windows. Best thing we've ever done. No whistling, they're a good tight window, and real solid.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #6  
About thicker spacing being better insulation when the insulation is a gas (one of the 'ons like neon, krypton, argon,etc, or air) N O T !!!!

Thicker is better with fiberglass, or foam plastic, etc. because the material restricts the formation of convection cells which promote heat transfer. Too much air gap and you have more easily supported convection and less insulation value. For example: in foam plastic for insulation there are different densities. Too dense and you get too much conduction through the solid material (skin of the bubbles).. Use really big bubbles to lower the density and the individual bubbles set up convection cells and R value goes down. There is an optimum density for each material which takes into account the fill gas in the bubbles as well as other factors.

Now then, regarding windows, there are vinyl windows and then there are vinyl WINDOWS which perform nearly as well as the top o' the line stuff mentioned at a tad over 1/2 the price. Not all vinyl windows are created equal! I'm not knocking any of the top brands or their clad wood windows. They are beautiful and perform well but with careful selection their performance can be equaled or very nearly so for say no more than 60% of their cost. See "Fine Homebuilding" advertisers for ideas.

Patrick
 
   / Replacement Window Help #7  
I've used Crestline and Marvin. Generally speaking solid vinyl windows are a no-no in areas with great temperature fluxuations. The vinyl will contract and expand at a much different rate and different amounts then the glazing, thus creating the leakage problems.

Vinyl clad windows (over a wood core) are better, depending on how the cladding is done and if the expansion/contraction cycles are properly taken into consideration during the engineering of the window.

I personally think that aluminum clad (over a wood core) has the best life longevity.

Every major window company has different lines/grades/quality windows. Pella and Andersen make some very good windows and they also make some not so good windows, which are many times the great priced ones that appear in the advertisements.

Crestline: Used their aluminum clad casement windows in a renovation project. Was in a open prairie area with windy conditions and had no leaks. Construction was pretty good but ease of cleaning was a little bit of an issue. Bought Crestline because for comparable contruction quality they saved me about $40 per window over the Pella and Andersen brands.

When we built a house a couple years ago we researched windows quite a bit, probably on par with the research and time spent on the tractor decision. Looked at the big national players (e.g. - Andersen, Marvin, Pella, WeatherShield) and many regional players. Windows and doors are a major portion of any house building/renovation project (for us they constituted about 8% of the budget). Ended up purchasing...

Marvin: Have their Ultimate double hung windows in our current house. Love these and would buy them again. Look very good and have an easy tilt mechanism that does not require "smashing" the plastic jambs back like many other vendors do in order to tilt the window. These windows cost a bit more but have performed very well, even with 60 mph winds and driving rain.

If your budget can afford the difference and you plan on keeping the house for awhile, I'd recommend the Marvin. The Crestline windows are a good value and I would use those if I wanted a good quality window and was planning to possibly sell the house in the next few years. Not that Crestline is cheap stuff, but if you are selling, potential buyers may not appreciate the value of the windows.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #8  
Rob - This may be a little subjective /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif.

We're replacing our 37 year-old wood double hungs and aluminum storms on the North (back) side with Pella Prolines. As you know, they are aluminum clad wood. We're using them because it's what my Dad used in his house, and what he mostly installed in other houses he built. He never liked Anderson because Grossman's sold them and he always thought they were consummate Dubs, plus some of the Andersons were real "budget" products (especially in his favorite store). His real opinion is that Anderson and Pella may now be similar, but he liked Pella 'way back because of the quality, and they had retail stores locally where he could always get replacement parts. Marvin is apparently the "Cadillac" - I don't have experience with them, but am learning they are really good. Pella has a couple higher priced architectural lines, too, that may compete with Marvin.

Caution - Rant Zone Ahead - Prepare to Diverge!

Pella used to be in Home Depot but are now not. I take that as a plus for Pella; I'm developing the same opinion about HD as Dad had about Grossman's, for anything other than small parts & pieces here and there. I bought HD's better insulated vinyl storm doors last year and am happy with them so far. On this rebuild/re-insulate/reside/replace windows project, HD struck out badly, having no Pellas, and very few other things I was looking for, including a decent hammer type stapler. For large projects, I'm going back to real lumber yards. Our local yard beats their prices, they have Pella products, and the experienced sales people are there. Do yourself a favor and compare the quality of various things from plywood to drip edge and flashing with local yards before you order up a ton of stuff at HD. I've seen significant differences in what you would think were "standard" building products, enough to bother me about the windows. I had a brief, exciting fling with HD, but I'm back to the less exotic but more dependable partner, now. If anyone can correct me, I'm all ears (well, there's actually quite a bit of gut, too).

Rant Zone Ended. Resume Speed. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

The thing I would mention about new windows, at least the Pellas, is that the exterior appearance has changed. There is a thin aluminum nailing flange on the exterior instead of the wider, brickmold type wood molding/nailing flange. There is now only a narrow exterior frame exposed, and it changes the proportion and appearance of the trimmed area of the window. Some people install additional trim (~2" stock) around the window to fill out the proportions of the window. Compare older windows to newer ones and you'll see what I mean - the newer ones look more modern with their narrow lines. You may like it, but you may be unpleasantly surprised at the change it makes in the appearance of your house. We are now deciding whether to fill it out and paint it trim color. We also ordered the windows in tan to try to compliment the light color of the trim, as we found white was too stark. The screens in the same tan color, too.

We found that the rough openings on our house were a bit narrow for the available window sizes. We definitely didn't want to drop down 2"- 4" in width, and shoehorning windows into place is a bad idea - they won't work when the framing moves due to climatic changes. We simply zipped out one of the 2x4 jacks and replaced it with a rough 1" board - being careful to note what that did to the interior location of the window before deciding which one the cut. A rough or full dimension board is plenty strong, nailed to the adjacent stud, and we could use the larger windows. We also "padded" up the bottom with rough boards, as there was plenty of height in the original framing, even with the old windows. I would highly suggest getting exact rough opening measurements - even if you have to remove interior molding to do so - before you pick up your windows. You need about 3/4" over the window size, which will be spelled out by the salesman or in the manufacturer's info. I suppose I need to say you should talk to a contractor, but I wouldn't be afraid of cheating like we did on the framing - assuming you have good, properly-framed openings.

We'll be replacing the rest of the windows as we move around the house and re-side using clapboards (still think vinyl is a passing fad /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif, like smokless powder, the automobile, and computers). We may check into the Marvins or the other Pella lines for the front, just for fun. Keep in touch on this.
 
   / Replacement Window Help #9  
Anderson...the reason...Anderson came out an rebuilt every window in a the house of a guy i work with..and he was at least the 4th owner of the 20+year old house. he had some trouble with a couple windows, so before tearing into the window, he decided to call anderson...they sent a guy out, he repaired those windows, checked the others, and came back in a couple weeks and went thru every window in the house, free, no charge...etc etc
heehaw
 
   / Replacement Window Help #10  
RBrown,

Try this site, <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jlconline.com/>http://www.jlconline.com/</A>. Look for
the Forums at the top of the page and then find Exterior
Details on the right column towards the bottom of the page.
The url to the Exterior Details is to long to copy here.

They have had lots of discussions about windows. I'm not
sure you are going to every get a straight answer to buy
brand X but at least you will be a bit more knowledgable.

BTW, you won't be able to post on the site unless you are
a builder, contractor, etc, but you can read away.

The responses you are getting here are similar to JCOnline with
the exception of the the problems with Anderson windows.
This is the first time I have seen some one mention problems
with Anderson. Marvins, Hurd, and Pellas have had problems
mentioned on JCOnline.

Good Luck,
Dan McCarty
 

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