Respect?!?

[skent]

We have entered into a dilemma. And we need some advice. We are caretakers of my family farm and own a house in the corner of the property. The total length of the farm driveway is 1800 feet. 700 feet of the driveway (between my property and the main road) is a county "Right of way" and borders a 2.6 Acre wooded lot that has just receintly been put up for sale. The right of way serves as access to two other houses (out by the main road) and the building lot, and finally us at the 'end of the line'. The drive ends at our tennants house (occupied by my Aunt).

Our problem is we are getting several cars a day, siteseeing, looking for the lot that's for sale and wanting to see whats at the end of the driveway. Many times people leave their parked car in the drive and walk thru the woods (to look for the property stakes) and leave myself or my wife having to wait for them to return. Then theres the ones who try to turn around and go across the grass or better yet the Alfalfa or corn. We once had a 'siteseer' leave 4" deep ruts in our side yard (after a heavry rain) while trying to turn around fast. By the time I got out there, they are on there way and can't get tag number. The police have said even if it's posted "No Tresspassing", I have to call the police and the tresspassers still have to be there when the police arrive.

I'm not anti-social but feel I deserve some privacy and respect for my property.

I wanted to post a VERY DESCRIPT sign, but my wife is worried that I might be going "too far". Last time our drive way was blocked, I wanted to get the Case DC w/fel and 'move the obstical' out of the way. It was gone by the time I got the Case fired up.

Any suggestions? Should I go with the VERY DESCRIPT sign? Post Chemical Hazzard signs? How about the one "Don't worry about the dog. . . . Beware of the Owner". What would (or have) you guys done?



Steve
"Amateurs built the Ark. . . . . . . .Professionals built the Titanic"

 

[Boondox]

Steve -- This is a problem that often irks those of us living in similar situations. My wife won't let me buy a backhoe because she's afraid I'll dig trenches around the cars of those inconsiderate few who block access to our home while they're off trespassing on our property. I have pushed enormous spruce logs into place in front of and behind their cars...then taken my sweet time getting around to moving them when they come to the house for help.

In the end I put up a couple of those little signs showing a car being towed, and added my little sign asking people not to block the road so the residents can come and go. The combination seems to have worked. Or maybe it's the incredibly bumpy mess my Aggies have made of the road..?

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

 

[cowboydoc]

Steve,
I know exactly what you mean! Can you put a gate at the beginning of the road and then block off the sides of it? Around here if people are trespassing you can file a citizen's complaint and have them ticketed. The police don't have to be there. If you can't put a gate out I would put out a sign that says something about the place being monitored and all unauthorized cars and people will be prosecuted for trespassing and cars towed immediately. Do you have a sign that says private driveway only? I would get as nasty as you need to. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior.

 

[RobS]

Steve, I've had various situations like this and I use a slightly different approach. Signs and such mostly get ignored or piss people off. I've had better luck trying to accomodate the people. Unless they are vandals, they will usually respond well. When I had snowmobilers running over my newly planted trees, rather than put up signs and fences, I just put a wooden grade stake with a survey ribbon at each tree. The snowmobilers still rode by (which wasn't bothering me), but they no longer ran over my trees. One of them even complimented me on my approach. In your case, could you create a parking/turnaround spot for the visitors? Maybe the county would help (or at least allow it) since it's a county road. Most people (but unfortunately not all) will do the right thing if given the opportunity. Good luck /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[skent]

Richard,

Thanks for the ideas.

My wording (for a sign) would be:

PRIVATE DRIVE-PRIVATE PROPERTY
NO TRESSPASSING
NO HUNTING
NO TURN-AROUND
NO SITESEEING
VIOLATORS WILL BE PROSECUTED
NO WARNINGS

My wife thicks the wording is too harsh. As far as a motorized gate, that very do-able, but expensive.

Steve

 

[Harv]

Maybe you could invite them in with:

ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK

They wouldn't know what it means, exactly (nor would you, for that matter), but who would want to take the chance? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[skent]

Rob,

I know VERY well about that!. On the far side of our farm is a field road to access our wood lot. It was fescue and very well covered, as I only used it when conditions would allow such use without damaging the turf. I'm real big on soil conservation. Over the past two years, the family (two farms over) bought their two teenage sons 4-wheelers. In less than one season, they have turned my field roads into dirt and ruts. The father denies they tresspass (even though I videotaped them/time clocked them at over 45 MPH) or ride dangerously. One time we saw the younger one take a spill, and have to be helped up and back to his 4-wheeler (limping badly). My daughter said he showed up in school two days later with a cast. Told his mom it was caused by jumping off a round bale.

I don't want to be mean and I know kids will be kids, and your only young twice (the second time is when you purchase your Bota/Deere/Boomer, heck, my kids have a 2 seat GO-CART they use for chores around the farm - but they must stick to the rules and not use it when it would damage the field roads, and NEVER, NEVER leave the property with it.)
When I was a kid (sigh) I had a trail bike and respected other peoples property, or my dad would take it away.



Steve

 

[skent]

Harv,

I like it. . . . I really like it. . . . your a genius!

Steve

 

[Jag]

Steve, it will always amaze me at the lengths people will go to help themselves to the use of other's people property.. I have been setting on the poarch and watched people come up the long driveway and turn and drive right down into the field like it was a state park and they have already paid their access fee. This year durning the first week of turkey season, I and about three of my neighbors caught two hunters tresspassing on the property. Yes the sheriff was called and they got ticketed.. I was parked at their car on the county road just off the edge of my property when they shot the first time. I was just into the edge of the field when my neighbor shows up, seems that he was working down on the other end of the road and had told them that morning that they had no business there. And it turns out his son had told them the day before the same thing... But what I can not believe, and why they really wanted to hunt that field is that they had baited it with 20 pounds of corn three days before. The property is very well posted. The sheriff told them before he left, "you can go before the judge and pleade not guilty, or pay your fine, If I was you it sure does not look good and, I would just pay the fine." It seems that these people have no land of their own and no clue or respect for those who do..... I would like to know what they would think if I pulled on their front lawn and just dumped my trash out, throw out all the old beer bottles in the back end or my pickup, or emptyed a few ash cans full of cigerette butts, or started a camp fire or started digging worms to go fishing... but it just never crosses their minds....

 

[bsauter]

A couple signs I always liked:

Trespassers will be shot, Survivors will be Prosecuted.

If you are found here tonight, you will be found here tomorrow. (With a picture of a gun)

Of course, you wouldn't really want to do this but it would sure make someone think twice!!

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[skent]

Had a similar one three years ago during deer rifle season. I heard a rifle shot coming from the direction of the main farm. When I got over the hill, I noticed a truck parked on one of our fields and someone in one of my trees. I walked past the truck and approached the tree (hunter was in a portable tree stand) and notified him he was on private property and had to leave. He got mouthy and said he wasn't on anybodys private property and was going to go when he was ready to. I pulled out my cell phone and dialed our house and started telling my wife (who thought I was crazy) that I needed her to dispatch a DNR Police to handle a hostile tresspasser. He got down, without saying a word and left. I later found out he was a neighbors brother. He knew darned well he was on private property!

Two weeks later, I was closing up my pole barn down at the farm and noticed a ray of sunshine (from the setting sun) shining on the wall. As I approached, I saw a perfectly round dot of sunlight. Traced it back to a hole in the pole barn siding, from the direction he was sitting, about the size of a 30 calibre bullet. Never located an exit hole, or bullet (its a 32 X 40 with too much stuff in it) . Can't blame him as I don't really know if it was his. But the facts are the hole was and entrance (edges pushed in) and it wasn't there before the incident (metal wasn't rusty yet.).

It takes all kinds.

If it wasn't for the fact that the land has been titled in my family's name since the 1840's I would have packed up and moved long ago. My elders put up with wild animals, civil war raids, droughts, and bad times. I figure so can I.


Steve

 

[JOR_EL]

Hi Steve, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

We are faced with a similar situation, ...1600'drive w/the first 400' leading past or branching off to 3 other homes, the remaining 1200 feert on our property.

I agree Harv's "risk" sign will stop some adults. Kids are another matter - to them risk is a positive. And they will soon prove to themselves it is non-existent. If the father is one who won't even believe a video-tape, then I think the "law" is the way to go, but a shame to have to.

We have taken a different approach, and it has cut the number of "site"-seers to almost nil.

I simply drove two iron form-stakes, 0ne on each side of the 12' wide driveway entrance to our property. I wired a flourescent yellow tennis ball (with holes cut for the stake to fit thru) about 2 inches down from the top, using the tie-wire holes.

Then I made a 3/4" thick (=VISIBLE) yellow poly-rope(= lightweight/less sag), with a nice eye-splice in each end just long enough to stretch tightly across between the stakes. The balls keep it at the right height, .the tension keeps it straight and tidy-looking.

Having to stop and unhook the rope seems to give (most) people just enough of a "trespassing" feeling so that they take the hint. ( ... in the several years the rope has been there, no-one has ever just "driven-through" it.)

The rope seems to say "private - keep out" without shouting it at everyone. It is obviously there for a reason, and sure doesn't say "welcome". people seem to undersatand that you wouldn't block a road unless it WAS private, and get the idea. Fortunately for us, the "branches" to other homes give a place to turn around.

Rude/inconsiderate people like the turkey-hunters, or the "turkey" kids/parents, deserve whatever degree of escalated pressure they require, to teach them some manners.

Being a good neighbor, doesn't require letting people walk all-over you.
I've found that civil-but-straightforward words, delivered with unflinching eyes and intent, usually get the message across with a minimum of defensive hostility on the part of the transgressor. A private conversation with the "boss" of the clan, is better than a confrontation with the whole-clan, to avoid "on-stage" elements.

A reference to the "fact" that your lawyer has instructed you to ban the kid's "visits" because of liability considerations may help. Also, a registered letter pointing out the risk-of-injury (with reference to the already-occured broken-arm), and containing a "letter of waiver/risk-acceptance" for them to sign, may(while not necessarily really legal) SEEM just "official" enough to give them pause. It should make them feel "on-record" as having-been-warned/notified about their trespassing. And your having a copy/delivery receipt just MAY help, if a judge is ever having to evaluate your actions/responsibility.

Good luck,

Larry

 

[JOR_EL]

Steve,

Probably don't need to say this, but the "letter of waiver/risk-acceptance"undoubtedly WILL NOT be signed by the neighbor. That's not the point, anyway. It's just a bluff/intimidation device.

If he's a dufus, and DOES sign it, it may not mean much legally, but certainly won't hurt.

Larry

 

[skent]

Thanks Larry for the (good) suggestion. . . .

<font color=blue>Being a good neighbor, doesn't require letting people walk all-over you.</font color=blue>

That was the main reason I haven't persued the law with the kids on the 4-wheelers. I live (and want to continue) living in peace here. . . .it it means occasionally turning away from watching a some kids tear up field roads, then thats what I'll have to do. I do know that fighting and feuding with neighbous is no way to live either.

The father of the boys is a grain farmer, does about 350 acres of his land and 250 or so of rented land. Every time we speak (how ya doin' . . whats happening) he goes into detail how farmers are losing money and it's been years since he's been in the black. . . . but he drives a fairly new GMC4WD with duelies and diesel. . . . both his sons have those 4 wheelers ($5K each). . . .wife drives a Cady. . . just had a new BIG grain bin and drier/roaster installed. How can people afford these things if they are losing money???? Their kids have over 350 acres of land to ride on. . . and they still have to mess with my little 40 something acres. . . .

My grandfather farmed the 40 acres with two horses and a single bottom plow. Would take him over two weeks to plow the whole thing (if nothing went wrong) He died when he was 32, leaving my grandmother with seven kids to feed and a bills to pay. My uncle was 13 at the time and learned to be a provider for his siblings. He taught himself how to farm, how to butcher pigs and steers. He didn't farm to get rich or to drive big expensive vehicles. He farmed because he had to, and he loved it. And so do I. The only difference is it's different today (bet you never heard that before) in that people don't respect boundries, and developers are always trying to gobble up real estate. I (like my Uncle) don't want to get rich farming. I just want to survive (and have enough money to by diesel fuel) and provide a sanctuary for my children.

I consider myself lucky that I was able to learn how (from my uncle) to butcher pork and beef, I can usually have a bountiful crop and many nights we sit down to a meal where almost everything on the table was grown and processed by us on our property. And thats what I want for my kids. . . ..


(calm down. . . .steve'o. . . . .clensing breath. . . . .sigh) Sorry Larry, about the length of this one. . . . .

Steve

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Skent,

You got it damn straight.

Al

 

[GlueGuy]

Steve,

I know how you feel. My parents used to get snowmobilers coming through their property to get to the lake my parents were on. My Mom got ticked off enough to put up a sign that simply said:

No Tresspassing. Survivors will be prosecuted.

No threats, just a simple implication.

We also have this issue where we live now. Our driveway is a total of 4300 feet. The first 3000' or so is shared with 6 other homes. We often get people in our front yard because they got "lost". In actuality, I think most of them come out because of the view.

Slightly complicating it, our next door neighbors give directions to visitors that their place is "the next to last one on the road". Now if that isn't a bozo way to give directions, I've never heard one! How is someone going to know they're at the "next to the last" until they find the last one? Sheesh.

At this point we've put up a large, and prominent "No Trespassing" sign at the last split in the shared road. We'll see. However, a couple of weekends ago I came upon a group of bicyclists coming up the final split. Asked them if they were lost. They replied that they were looking for "the christmas tree farm".... Well, you can "see" the christmas tree farm from our place, but it might be considered an adventure to get there... I was pretty suspicious, as in order to come up the shared part of the road, they would have had to go over (or something) a closed, locked gate, also marked as "Private".

I pointed out that they were on private property, and they ought to get a map (there are plenty available on the adjacent open space preserve, which BTW includes the alleged christmas tree farm). They then said they guess they were lost. I suggested that they find their way back to the public trail.

I think the next step is to put up a simple gate at the final split. We probably won't lock it (for now). Just want to make sure people know that they aren't welcome unless we say they're welcome....

The GlueGuy

 

[JOR_EL]

[[[(calm down. . . .steve'o. . . . .clensing breath. . . . .sigh)]]]

Steve, I can certainly understand your getting agitated when discussing the situations you describe.

Personally I LIKE people who aren't afraid to get a little passionate about the things rthey believe in /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif !

Somertimes a little tongue-biting pays off in good-will, over the long run, ...we each have to decide where we'll draw the line.

It's pretty sad to realize how far down-on-the-scale consideration for others has slipped, when it comes to the things kids are learning from today's society (and today's parents).

Yes, I know there are exceptions, ...and thank God for them.

But the general trend is pretty scary! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Larry

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>their place is "the next to last one on the road". Now if that isn't a bozo way to give directions, I've never heard one!</font color=blue>

Hey, GlueGuy, are you talking about me? That's where I live; next to the last place on this road./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Of course, it's a public county road that continues on another half mile./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[MReeter]

Skent,Understand that if one of those neighbor kids gets seriously hurt on YOUR property,YOU could be held liable in a Law Suit.I know this sounds crazy,but I know of two different cases where landowners were taken to court by people who indeed were trespassing and had serious accidents on thier property.The worst case being a "Wrongful Death" suit,a 10 year old had flipped a 4-wheeler over backwards on top of himself,and broke his neck.A tragic accident to say the least,but the landowner and the ATV company were brought into Court by this boys family.Fortunately this Mans land was LEGALLY posted,and his position stood up in Court.The kicker is that he had to spend over 10 grand for an Attorney.I know this sounds bizzare,but it is true.

 

[cowboydoc]

It most certainly is true!!! Read the deadly force thread.