Resume question

[Sigarms]

After 15 years, I turned in my resignation giving my company two weeks notice, and they gave me notice two days ago that I am now unemployed.

Kicker is, currently I have nothing lined up (yes, I know, but I feel like I'm doing the right thing).

Now, do you keep your resume down to 2 pages? Honestly, I could do three pages no problem, but I'm thinking that's too much to read.

Secondly, my supervisor (who lives in another state) is going to give me a letter of recomendation. The question is, do I list "references available upon request" (on the resume) or should I just include my supervisor's recomendation, which will be "glowing" and just add "more available" to the resume (per references)?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[mjarrels]

Keep it to ONE page... less is more on a resume... Never two pages!

mark

 

[Sigarms]

Keep it to ONE page... less is more on a resume... Never two pages!

mark

Seriously, ONE page?

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to tell people that I'm a petroleum distribution technician when I'm really a gas station attendant by "dressing it up" (and I did pump gas in college)

Just hard to try and get everything in on ONE page.

 

[jdbower]

It is pretty industry and position specific. Most of the resumes I see are two pages, anything more and they tend to be too wordy, anything less and they don't have the experience (I'm in the telecom field and usually see technical resumes for mid-level positions). The exception is that occasionally I'll see a page as an addendum with a list of publications and patents or (for more hands on positions) a list of test equipment they're familiar with. Remember that some things are redundant after a while, if I'm looking for someone who has detailed knowledge of optical networking and packet switching it's a given that they can muddle their way through Office basics and can use Windows.

 

[Bird]

It's very difficult to get everything most of us want to include in one page, and I'm admittedly a bit out of date, but in my past experience, Mark is right; one page is best. To have a full length, detailed resume available, if requested, is a good idea, but initially, the shorter the better.

 

[rox]

Sigarms,
I suppose a one page resume works okay of say law enforcement for example. Everyone in a hiring position would know and understand differences in rank and general responsibilities, possibly the same thing for teaching. However in the business world I think one page is to short and 2 pages is better. Your resume needs to show key data points to potential emplyers such as the $ volume that is generated by your "unit" who your key customers were , product lines, how many number of accounts etc. In short I think it is better to have a two page resume if you have accomplished great things isn a career.

I have written many many resumes for friends so you might say I have a knack for it. Especially for young people starting out their resumes tend to be very thin so I go to two pages to give the hiring manager more information to make them look not so in experienced. For people in the building or technical trades I do a completely different type of resume there I do a functional resume. Gee I wish I had one of those to show you but I had a hard drive crash and I no longer have one.

Let me explaint he resume I did for a friend who had 25 years with the same employer, a couple differents employers and then back to his 25 year employer. That is like a half a page resume if you just follow the standard format, start and finish dates & address etc. For this fellow I broke it down into areas of expertice and experience.

The left hand colum showed for example Design and Blueprint Reading - then the middle column described his experience and abilities (accepting Cad files with the names of different cad programs,) and then the right hand column showed who he worked for when he did that. So for design and blueprint reading he did that with 3 different companies and those 3 were shown in the right hand column.

The next entry would be for example, quotations. He read blueprints and provided quotes on construction jobs. He did that for just one of the companies he worked for. But I build out a little bit int he middle section what that entailed it turns out to be more than what you might think.

Ordering,Inventory Contorl, and logistics would be another area of responsibility and expertice. The middle section would describe that. I thought it was facinating that he would order materials to come in by train sometimes and he had experience with that. Getting materials to the jobsite at the right time showed his ability to juggle balls.

Another sections was managing emplyees. He did that in a couple different companies so each one of those was a seperate middle and right hand section. The middle sections always described the activity.

My cousin was an aircraft mechanice and certified to work ont he power plant for Northwest airlines and in his background he worked in the iron mines in Minnesota and i did his resume as a functional resume as described above and it turned out great. His functional sections included tool and die and the name brands of tool and die equipment he used, he was a supervisor so he set up a routine where they tested all their equipment on a set schedule to make sure all the equipment was working within certain tolerances etc.

In all cases at the top of the resume I like to put your goal and objecteve and a very short summary of your experience. I'll attach the working copy of my son's resume for you to look over. The way I do it is I interview you and make notes. Then I start with a rough draft wiht a lot of XXX and ???? in them for further refinement and send it to you and then just keep refining the rough draft over and over until it is done.

I have my own sad story right now, the guy we sold our restaurant to quit paying so we have the restaurant back. 99% of all restaurants sold the previous owner provides the financing for obvious reasons. So instead of returning to France at the end of my Sept vacation I am stuck here dealing with this. If you PM me with your resume I will be happy to look it over for you and provide you a fresh perspective. It is relaly odd most people detest really detest creating a resume, and I love it I really enjoy it. I ahve a very good track record also all resumes I creat every single person has gone on to get a good job off of them. Of course the resume is only the first way to get an interview but my resumes have a record of generating interview requests.

I'll attach my son's resume to give you an idea of the format I use.

 

[Sigarms]

Rox

Thank you.

Apologies, but France's loss is America's gain

 

[Bird]

I suppose a one page resume works okay of say law enforcement for example. Everyone in a hiring position would know and understand differences in rank and general responsibilities, possibly the same thing for teaching.

A very common misconception, Rox. The ranks and general responsibilities vary tremendously, depending in part on the size and organizational structure of the different departments.

Actually, it depends on just what you are going to use a resume for. I still have mine on the computer; four pages of education, law enforcement training, dates of promotions, different divisions of the department in which I worked, major accomplishments in each of those assignments, and work experience other than law enforcement. But if I were applying for a job, depending upon the position applied for, I might condense it to one page. And yes, when I was doing the hiring, I'd carefully review a one or two page resume. Usually if they were any longer than that, someone was trying to exaggerate.

And Rox, I'm sorry to hear about the restaurant deal; hope it all works out well for you.

 

[rtimgray]

Please don't take any of this personally, I'm just gonna write in generalities:

I'm with the "less is more" camp. When we review resumes here we very rarely read the ones that are single spaced typing for two or three pages. It's just too much stuff that is usually put there to make it appear as though the writer knows something about everything, whether they do or not. When we see somebody has written that much, it looks like they are just trying to build it up.

Now obviously, resumes and interviews are all about selling yourself, but you really just need a foot in the door. A one or two page resume with sensibly spaced highlights of your carreer will pique the interest of more people than trying to hack through 10,000 words on 3 or 4 pages.

Everyboy who has worked for 4 or 5 years could fill up 3 or 4 pages with impressive sounding accomplishments, accolades, seminars, etc. etc. All you really need to do is get their attention, get in the door, and work from there.

I've always kept mine to a trim page and half, references available upon request.

Good luck and take care.

 

[mjarrels]

Tip... Buy a box of Crain (sp) paper to print on... About $20.00 a box for 20 sheets... Crain makes the paper that our money is printed on, top quality cotton! Don't print on 500 sheets per pack paper from the local store. Crain paper WILL make you stand out... Don't mail out 100, 200, 300 resumes in bulk... Target the jobs that you really want (less than 2). Thats when you can talk up the other pages that arn't on the resume and close the deal!

mark

 

[JDeerekid]

Years ago I think 1 page resumes was the thing. Now with all the technologies people have much more to tell.

There was a thing on one of the local news stations a few weeks back and now most employers look for a 2 page minimum and have references and recommendations on seperate sheets.

 

[rox]

Years ago I think 1 page resumes was the thing. Now with all the technologies people have much more to tell.

There was a thing on one of the local news stations a few weeks back and now most employers look for a 2 page minimum and have references and recommendations on seperate sheets.

I agree with you there is a lot to tell and I think one page resumes in most cases are to short. a page and a half to at the most two pages seems to me to be about right. Plus as you grow in your career your earlier jobs can be kind of be just one liners. However I do recomend with the resume sending in a letter of recomendation if you have one. If oyu ahve more than one written across the top of a letter of recomendation can be a not that additional letters from previous employers can be forwarded.

In business they want to see for example how many accounts you handled/supervised. This gives them an idea if your experience will fit in with their size oepration. There is a vast difference between a Collection Manager who managed 10,000 customer accounts vs one who managed 300 customer accounts so that is why I think specifics are important. jsut to say Collection manager to keep it to one page is shorting the reader of information they need.

Bird- If I were doing your rresume I would keep it to one page or a page and a half and then organize all your training as a seperate document and include it also but as a seperate document. Plus orgainizing the training would be important, date order would not be my first choice I would probably orgainze it around areas of training and education such as Investigation training, forencis training etc. The way you present the material, how it is organized will make for very fast reading because the area the hiring manager is most interested in they will read fully and you ahve that nicely grouped for them and they will skim the rest.

One more tip when sending your resume elecronically always always send it as a .pdf file. Problems occure if sent as a Word Document a .pdf nobody ever has any problems with.

 

[kenmac]

After 15 years, I turned in my resignation giving my company two weeks notice, and they gave me notice two days ago that I am now unemployed.

Kicker is, currently I have nothing lined up (yes, I know, but I feel like I'm doing the right thing).

Now, do you keep your resume down to 2 pages? Honestly, I could do three pages no problem, but I'm thinking that's too much to read.

Secondly, my supervisor (who lives in another state) is going to give me a letter of recomendation. The question is, do I list "references available upon request" (on the resume) or should I just include my supervisor's recomendation, which will be "glowing" and just add "more available" to the resume (per references)?

Any input would be appreciated.

Are you staying in the A/C business ?? Or, you looking for a different line of work ?

Which ever it is,

I wish you well in your search

Ken

 

[riptides]

Most resumes these days I have seen are two page minimum. They have to be eye catching, have proper grammar and correct spelling. Most refer to references available. People are checking so have your references on standby.

If there is a chance for you to hand deliver it, do it.

 

[rox]

One side note on resumes. My daughter was going for her very first teaching job in art education and we made homemade paper. It was really colorfull and super thick since it was homemade paper and jsut perfect for an art teacher. Her resume would have stood out in a pile. On the end of the resume we noted that she had hand made the paper.

 

[jinman]

I found in the last six years or so that most resumes come through Monster.com or an employment agency. Rarely are these very pretty. Some applicants bring a formal resume with them when called in to interview, but not all. I'm very much in the less is more crowd. When someone puts down some flowery discourse about what they will do for my company, I always ask them details of what my company does. More times than not I find it is rhetoric with no substance.

So I would say to keep your resume short and don't include references, but bring them to the interview. Do some background searching on the company you are applying to and be able to discuss what they do and why you want to work for them.

Do not, under any circumstances, air you dirty laundry about your previous job. If they ask why you resigned from your last job, tell them you are at a crossroads in your career and want to expand your opportunity. Don't do like one fellow did when we asked. He said," My boss was a d**n liar!" He got shown the door pretty quickly.

I also have a favorite question I ask of people who profess to be experts. In my case, that was experts on aircraft systems. I'd ask them what the difference was between pneumatics and hydraulics? You'd be surprised how many of these "experts" would stumble on that question, very telling. I remember also my first interview for an electronic technician when I got out of the US Navy. My interviewer asked me what was the difference betwee a 54xx and 74xx series TTL chip? I didn't know that one was a plastic pack and the other was ceramic with a higher temperature range. It made me look pretty silly and I didn't get the job.

Oh yes. . . We made it a practice to call the best people back in for a second interview, and would often ask them to bring additional info or for them to bring samples of their work if possible. Many people seemed reluctant to come back for the second interview. Most times they weren't called back. I think many interviews are phone interviews today and the best phone interviewees are called in for a face-to-face. This is especially true if you are interviewing with a distant company. One interview I had was completely telephone and video conference.

 

[Sigarms]

Thanks for the input guys.

Ken, since I really do love my "field" and the guys I work with, I'm going to try to stay in the HVAC field.

15 years, four states, 5 different "job titles" and getting actual results seem really hard to get on one piece of paper (yes, the paper will "stand out"). Heck, I don't even have the professional organizations and training I've had and given listed on those two pages. Have to laugh, my company at the time had to talk me into taking an outside sales job because I never liked salesmen, thought they didn't do any work, took to much credit, and were never to blame for a screw up I swore I'd never be like that when I took the job and it seems to of helped

Darn, from my Social Security statement I get every year, I've been working since I was 16 and I've had more jobs than you can shake a stick at (other than my college degree, nothing else is on the resumer other than my old job functions and "titles" and results).

jinman, you're correct, I've just hit a crossroads in my career where I don't feel like I do have room to grow. Hardest part is all the friends I still have in the company. Currently I landed a state school system in North Carolina for some hydronics work . Took me three years to get this job. Officially my last day was last Weds., however the next day I was working with a counterpart with my company so he could take over the account and know what's going on with it (I'm not going to leave anyone high and dry so to speak). Heck, the best man at my wedding (and I at his) still works for my old company as well as a host of other good friends who I've helped in the past.

Per my old boss, he knows that if he ever goes somewhere else, one phone call to me and I'd be working for him in a heartbeat if he so wishes. One of the best men I've ever had as far as managing people and knowing how to actually motivate people other than by fear.

EDIT: Oh, I have to add, I've NEVER EVER professed to be an expert in anything. I learned a long time ago that if your customers have lower expectations of you and what "you can do", yet you continually exceed those expectations, business will grow.

Again, sincerely appreciate the feedback.

 

[dmccarty]

How many pages should be in a resume? Depends.

When I'm reading a resume I want to know as much as I can about the person. Don't see how that gets down on one page especially if one has been working for a few years. If the person is just out of school maybe one page but the kids we see these days have to be very competitive to just get us a resume and they usually can take up two pages. The resume is were you get the questions to ask in the interview. The more questions asked the more you find out.

Years ago I got in an argument with a recruiter for a contract company I worked with over the length of my resume. She was adamant that the resume be one page. I was just as adamant that I needed several pages. Long story short I told her I was not changing MY resume and she could submit me for jobs or not.

Why was I so adamant? An interview is a two way street. I'm might be looking for a job but I'm also interviewing my possible future boss. THE MOST important things a manger does is hire and keep employees. If a manager does not want to take the time to read my work experience for a job for which the manager is hiring, do I want to work for said manager? Really, how much time does it take to read a 5 page resume? Not much. If the manager can't spend a few minutes DOING THEIR JOB do I want to work for them?

The previously mentioned recruiter wanted me to cut off my job experience that was so many years prior. Can't remember how many years back. I'm working on a project at the moment for which I have done similar projects in the past. One back in the mid 90's and the other at the end of the 80s early 90s. If I followed her advice that experience would not be on my resume.

On the other hand if the resume is long because it is full of fluff and the writer has used lots of large fonts to take up space that tells you something as well. But that is what the reviewer should be looking for, information on the job seeker.

Now I could see how this could depend on the profession. Maybe some professions can keep the needed information on page. In my business if you have been working for awhile I don't see how all relevant experience can be on one page. Thus my it depends comment.

Later,
Dan

 

[Heywood Jannockitov]

Nowadays it may not matter all that much since the first person that "reads" your resume is probably not a person but a scanner searching for keyword "hits" that match the job requirements. Use as much of the same BS esoteric jargon that appears in the job posting in your resume and you have a better chance of it ending up on top of the pile.

 

[ToadHill]

I worked in Human Resources for 35 years and no one reads more than 2 pages of a resume. In fact my advice to you is to put the resume on a computer and early on the first page list two things, your job objective and your skills. Before you sent the resume out to a prospective employer find out as much as you can about that company and without making anything up alter the objective and tailor your skills to match the kinds of needs your prospective employer has.

Example: The company is in the electronics field, tailor your abilities to work with complex drawings to include how this can be of value to their company. " I have used my ability to read and understand complex drawings to solve XXX problems which contributed YYY$$$ to my employers bottom line.