Retaining Walls

   / Retaining Walls #11  
We are just today putting finishing touches (plants/flowers etc) in this wall. Though I used the backhoe seen in the background, I collected some of the rocks with a rented L-35. It seemed to handle the rocks perfectly fine. I have no experience with a B series. I would suggest investigating renting a machine, or (like me) just buy something to use for a while and then sell it. (wanna buy Brutus???) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Richard
 

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   / Retaining Walls #12  
James,
Just to throw out another option, we are see a lot of block retaining walls faced with cultured stone in our area. I have used the cultured stone to face a foundation wall and found it pretty easy to work with and it has a good look. Ours has been up about 2 years and is weathering well. If I remember right, the material we used had a 20 year warrenty.

MarkV
 
   / Retaining Walls #13  
Matthew,

You nailed the grade/thickness issue right on the head. I think that rule applies whether you are dry laying or cementing. Think about highway overpasses. When they pour those cement retaining walls, they always slope. That avoids the surface shifting phenomena, because as we've both found out, (in my case the hard way /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif), the dirt is going to shift at the top first.

I'm surprised you had a problem with all the gravel. Seems like you would have good drainage. I'm very concerned about the drainage problem as the main floor of the house is earth contact. In fact, the only reason I'm building the wall is to save the $1,500.00 worth of back fill that was washing out in heavy rains. My plan right now is to run 1 or 2 rows of sock tube around the top of the wall buried in washed stone and sitting in a lopsided valley of heavy mill ag plastic. The top of the bank will be sloped from the house to the wall with approximately a 5" drop in 14'. The basic backfil is sand. Over that, I'm placing about 1-2" of black clay. The idea is: anything that hits the clay will run into the sock tube and be routed safely away. Anything that gets through the clay will soak away into the sand.

Moisture here is a double problem as it contributes to frost heaving in the winter.

I don't know if this sock tube idea will work, but I guess I'll know if my crawl space floods out. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Something like that might be worth a try on your wall. Have you had any problems with critters in your wall? I had a heck of a time with mice wanting to nest in the rock piles (right up until the cement went on). Even had a blow snake take up residence (got rid of the mice /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif).

SHF

PS:Got any pictures of your wall?
 
   / Retaining Walls #14  
Yeah, one of the supply places here offers the block retaining wall stuff (Allen block? or something like that). Comes in "brick face", or "stone face" in at least 2 colors, and also comes with 6 degree backslope or 12 degree backslope, as well as different brick heights (4" and 8" I believe).

Not great for a "natural" looking wall (except the "stone face" looks pretty nice). However, if you need to go above 4', this stuff can be engineered with a "geo-grid" to go way above that (at least 12'-15').

Biggest issue is dealing with water retention, and making sure that it doesn't tilt out. Big ol' bummer if that happens.

The GlueGuy
 
   / Retaining Walls #15  
I have cut a swale from the barn out beyond the end of the retaining wall (over 30 feet) and there is a ramp from the lawn down to the bottom of the swale. I was draining about 10,000 sq feet into the swale. 10,000 times 2.75 is a whole lot of water to drain in 1 1/2 hours. It went over my dike and the rest is rubble at the bottom of the wall/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Your top drain sounds like it will work, but you live where it freezes, so bottom drains are also very important. There is nothing that will break a concrete wall faster than having the soil behind it get waterlogged and then frozen.

The critters I have are chipmunks and rabbits. The rabbits are so tame that my wife made me promise not to step on them. They do run from the tractor, though/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I have some pictures of the barn that show the first retaining wall. I'll see if I can figure out how to post them.

Matthew
 

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   / Retaining Walls #16  
I've seen walls over 30 feet high done with this kind of material. It's holding up a chain bookstore in Shrewsbury Massachusetts. It isn't pretty, but if properly installed it is effective.

Matthew
 
   / Retaining Walls #17  
I actually saw a version of this where they used the "rock" faced version, and mixed the gray and brown versions of the stuff (~~ 10% gray, ~~ 90% brown). It looked pretty nice.

Here's a link to the different product versions they have.

<font color=blue>PS - Previous message about faces should have read "stone" and "rock". The stone face is flat, the rock face is sculpted.</font color=blue>

The GlueGuy
 
   / Retaining Walls #18  
Matthew,

Mighty fine looking barn! You've got a pretty steep grade there that you're trying to hold back. I'll bet the water was flying down it in that storm. Did it effect your drive at all? (Wash out, etc?) You also have much bigger rocks than I have. It looks like they're flat. Did you cut them like that, or do you have a natural outcropping? Ours here are pretty much round, oblong, etc. (Big glacier from Canada comes down a few thousand years ago, dumps a lot of sand and round rocks. Later, along comes a bunch of people to set up shop on the sand and say "Hey! We got a state, and we're gonna call it Michigan." /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Just don't tell the Canadians. They might want their sand back. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.)

SHF
 
   / Retaining Walls #19  
GlueGuy,
I was not very clear when I was talking about cultured stone as a face on a block wall. What I was thinking of is a conventional block wall that a stone face is applied to like tile would be. This is a tinted, light weight contrete product that is cast from molds to look like stone. Often walls are finished with a true stone as a cap. Check out WWW.CULTUREDSTONE.COM to get past my weak writing skills./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

When I was first told of this product (there are a number of differnt manufactures) my mind thought of the cheap wood paneling people call wood walls. After looking at the finished product on several job sites my mind changed. This stuff looks very realistic and comes in many differnt styles of stone.

I used about 600 sf of this stone on our house in the mountains to face poured foundation walls, entry columns and as a back drop wall behind a wood stove. The cost was in the $3.50 a square foot range.

Getting back to retaining walls. The advantage,as I see it, is that a coventional block wall (or poured wall) with footing, rebar and the cells filled can be very strong and vertical. In most areas this is standard construction work, making it more cost effective than specialized work like stone construction.

All that said, I still think a true stone wall is as pretty as they come. I bring all this up only to offer another option that offers good results.

MarkV
 
   / Retaining Walls #20  
That barn took four years to design and build, but telling that story requires beer/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif You're looking at the south side of the barn. It's 9 1/2 feet from the basement floor to the aisleway floor above. The finish grade will slope more away from the barn than toward the retaining wall so the finished wall height is a maximum of 8 1/2 feet.

The retaining wall in the picture has stood for two winters now without moving. I figure that I'm probably done with that one. The wall on the other end of the barn is now under construction (again). It's full height by about 7 feet. I've got another 16 feet to go.

I had just cut most of the swale on the north side of the barn the day before the deluge, so the damage to the drive was less than it could have been. The water went over the wall on the far side of the barn, instead/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif There's an erosion channel about 8 inches wide and 6 inches deep running down the drive. Thank goodness my box scraper has finally arrived/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The rocks you can see in the photo are from a highway construction site. They were freshly blasted when I (ahem) "acquired" them/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif The excavation for the barn turned up three boulders too big for me to move (I didn't have a tractor then). The excavator placed them as the foundation for that wall when he came back for the rough grading. There were also a half dozen or so that I was able to place, then I had to get the rest from off-site.

It turned out that the entire barn site was an area filled with very high quality gravel, probably around 1918, when the house was built. The gravel that came out of the foundation hole was far better quality than the gravel I purchased to make that drive. The drive continues down to the pasture which is about five feet lower than the basement floor. There is a damned lot of fill in it and it's still pretty steep.

The boulders I'm using on the other side of the barn are _much_ bigger. The largest is a rough sphere, 3+ feet in diameter. I was able to pick that one up with the backhoe, but I had to put 600 lbs of rocks in the loader to put the front wheels back on the ground/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I found most of the boulders when cutting the swale. I used the backhoe to do the rough cutting. I pulled four loader buckets full of boulders and rocks without moving the backhoe in a place about 20 feet from the barn foundation.

I've also found a 66 inch section of finished granite curbstone and a granite quarry billet 81 inches long and seventeen inches wide, the depth varies from six to twelve inches. I found the latter one when digging out a 30 year old pine stump. I'll be using these in front of each of the two aisleway doors as steps.

When I'm done, I'll have a 12-24 inch deep swale from the Southeast corner of the barn to the the Northwest corner. The bottom of the swale is 30-32 feet away from the foundation. The East side will be covered with loam and seeded to lawn. The North side will be covered with five inches of stone dust and be a paddock for the horses.

The swale will carry all of the water from the barn roof, paddock and lawn (including the existing 7000 sq feet of lawn) to drainage pipes on the wooded slope from the barn level down to the pasture and woods on the lower level. After I've refilled the drive and given it a crown, the erosion problems should be minimized.

Matthew (who can be pretty long winded when he gets going)
 

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