retiring

/ retiring #321  
Read this article...
The Best Age to File for Social Security - Social Security Intelligence


Many people make these poor choices in their filing decisions because of something called hyperbolic discounting.

Hyperbolic discounting is a cognitive bias which leads individuals to accept a smaller reward today instead of waiting for a known larger reward later. This bias becomes stronger when the reward is closer to us (as opposed to farther into the future).

I’m not that kind of person I’d take the bigger long term payout almost every time but the future of SS is pretty shaky nor is living years into the feature especially at that age guaranteed. In this instance I’d take the earlier payout. 16 years is a long time for a break even period. I didn’t do the math for myself but I’m guessing it’s really longer than that since there’s interest to be earned over the 16 years. In either case I’d hope your financial affairs are in order by 78 with or without the slightly bigger SS check.
 
/ retiring #322  
Read this article...
The Best Age to File for Social Security - Social Security Intelligence


Many people make these poor choices in their filing decisions because of something called hyperbolic discounting.

Hyperbolic discounting is a cognitive bias which leads individuals to accept a smaller reward today instead of waiting for a known larger reward later. This bias becomes stronger when the reward is closer to us (as opposed to farther into the future).

This chart in the link above is pretty amazing, I would not have guessed that many take SS early.
0B45414E-1E79-4403-965E-5037E864E2DD.png
 
/ retiring #323  
This chart in the link above is pretty amazing, I would not have guessed that many take SS early.
View attachment 627341

It just goes to show how many people trust the Government to do the right thing with the money they paid into the system.
Many don't drink the kool-aid the Government is handing out
 
/ retiring #324  
I've read most of this thread. Good advice as everyone's situation is different.

My wife and I plan on retiring at 62 or 63. That will give me 30 years in the NC teachers state retirement system. Coupled with social security and our 401K our income levels will be good. We will be very comfortable assuming our health continues to be good. You never now. I do have primary health insurance coverage from the State. To cover my wife is $700 a month at current rates. This is Blue Cross Blue Shield. This is a great benefit to us.

We just sold our farm and have other real estate available for sale. The extra income from those revenue streams will make our retirement comfortable. We just purchased a nice motor coach and hope to travel a lot when retired. That's the plan anyway.
 
/ retiring #325  
Read this article...
The Best Age to File for Social Security - Social Security Intelligence


Many people make these poor choices in their filing decisions because of something called hyperbolic discounting.

Hyperbolic discounting is a cognitive bias which leads individuals to accept a smaller reward today instead of waiting for a known larger reward later. This bias becomes stronger when the reward is closer to us (as opposed to farther into the future).

I pored over that site and went to bed laughing thinking that the name of that website was a great oxymoron. He speaks in the first person yet he doesn't identify himself but your led to assume his name is Devin. He says many people make these poor choices in their filing decisions because of something called hyperbolic discounting. Imagine you are offered $50 today or $60 a week from now. Research around hyperbolic discounting usually finds that most individuals would choose the $50 today. But when the option is to wait 52 weeks to get $50, or wait 53 weeks to get $60, most choose to wait the 53 weeks for the higher reward.

What a misguided statement as it implies you don't have the $50 for those 52 weeks but can have it at the end. But if you only wait one more week you can have $60. He is clearly twisting the argument of whether to take early ss payments vs. later over a 4yr or greater time period. Certainly not a one week timeframe!! And his chart shows that a lot of people realize that. He says most of those people are making poor choices (implying that they're uneducated). I say they are educated. It's like the guessing game of how many jellybeans are in a glass jar of a known size. Let's assume its a gallon size. Some people will be ridiculous and guess 7, 10, 42 and at the other extreme might guess 80,000 or even in the millions. But the more people making thoughtful educated guesses the closer they become to getting it right. If you graph the results on a chart the result of the majority of people guessing will always point to the actual number of beans in the jar. The collective wisdom of the majority usually trumps the individuals.

He says this: When someone is offered $1,540 per month today or $2,728 per month starting in eight years, it's just too tempting to start accepting the money today instead of waiting.


He does make some good points though in that there are certain conditions where it does make sense. But the blanket statement that most of those people are wrong in doing so is a little presumptuous. Before I saw the other options on the website one of which was to find out who Devin is I kept looking for the author of the article but it was nowhere to be found. But there are certainly disclaimers in small print at the end of this article. The detail may be in the fine print! It states that he makes an income off of all the goods sold from the links listed on his site. In other words, its basically a slick sales pitch. Read further down to another disclaimer and it states that his cleverly named site is not a part of nor even affiliated with the official governmental SS services. Let alone be condoned by them.

What's this?? A new pop up advert just appeared on my screen. Interesting!! It says:

NEWS FLASH! From www.congressionalOMB_2
This just in: A new highly regarded study clearly baffles the minds of everyone serving in my organization. This study finds and my chart shows that a large and growing number of fine citizens suffer from a new condition called Acute Implementic Hyperbolic Discounting. It's nearing epidemic proportions as its now spreading across rural, suburban and even urban districts! These misguided unfortunates who fall prey to this infectious syndrome are now buying SCUTs and even compact tractors at an earlier age in their life. All of whom know full well they could wait 8 more years and buy a tractor with slightly more horsepower for a significant increase in price. Some of these unfortunates have gone berserk and have actually equipped that SCUT with unnecessary implements. Even a backhoe! OMG! These people desperately need my help! Fortunately, I have a plan:

Being the congressional CEO of my personal website, I know how to help these financially challenged individuals suffering from this malicious mechanical STD (Socially Transmitted Disease). I am covertly seeking donations to find a cure and with your monetary donations that cure will come sooner than later. You must act now and donate to this cause. Do not delay. They need your help. And I know how to deliver.

Sincerely,
Mr. Honest Politician

Disclaimer: My personal website is in no way part of the Congressional OMB or even affiliated with it. I only made it look that way so you can feel confident in its contents. Trust me, your donations will go directly into my personal fund. After all, I adhere to the wisdom and code of ethics of Abraham Lincoln!
And Honest Abe famously said you can trust everything you read on the internet!!

Further Disclaimer: I am not the rarest of breeds, an honest politician. I am not even a politician
.


:laughing:

Edit: I have removed my most embarrassing TVM computation and illustration from this post. :eek::eek::eek: and am trying to recover from falling on my sword!
 
Last edited:
/ retiring #326  
Year 1:
$1200 per month = $14,400 per year + 3% = $14,832.
Year 2:
$14,832 + $14,400 = $29,232 + 3% = $30,109.
Year 3:
$30,109 + $14,400 = $44,509 + 3% = $45,844.
Year 4:
$45, 844 + $14,400 = $60.244 + 3% = $62,051.
Year 5:
$62,051 + $14,400 = $76,451 + 3% = $78,745.
Year 6:
$78,745 + $14,400 = $93,145 + 3% = $95,939.
Year 7:
$95,939 + $14,400 = $110,339 + 3% = $113,649.
Year 8:
$113,649 + $14,400 = $128,049 + 3% = $131,890.
 
/ retiring #327  
I need some of that easy 3%/month earnings that turn $1200/month into $700k in only 8 years.

I think the learning here is to not take retirement advice from someone on the internet that can’t get a TVM calculation correct or realize that is incorrect before posting.
 
/ retiring #328  
There are two rules for math.

1. Always check your work.
2. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not right.
 
/ retiring #329  
There are two rules for math.

1. Always check your work.
2. If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not right.


:eek::eek:::eek:

OOPS! I think I have to wipe all that egg off my face for that quick TVM calculation as you rightly pointed out. I stand corrected!! It was late at night when I was thinking of that and with too much haste typed it in too early this morning. With some sound investing and taking into account inflation along with it the lower figure might not be too far off. My sincere apologies.

The noting of the disclaimers and other info that hadn't been mentioned and isn't too far off track though. Thanks for the reality check!!
 
/ retiring #330  
I say, take it at 62. If you do not actually need it, then invest it and make money with it. If you need it, then good, you have it, to use. No sense leaving your hard earned money any longer than necessary in the governments hands.
 
/ retiring #331  
There is a standard way to compare two series of payments, like receiving a smaller monthly SS amount from age 62 onwards vs a larger amount age 67+, in order to make an "apples to apples" comparison. The series of payments is converted to one single equivalent number that is called the "present value" or "future value" depending on which direction the conversion is going.

I used a spreadsheet for the attached screenshot (and I've pasted in the formulas in that red box for anyone who wants to recreate it), but you can find PV and FV calculators online, like this one (I pasted in the same calculation to show that it gives the same answer):
Present Value Calculator

In the spreadsheet, line 10 gives the "present value" in the year 2024 of the $2500 payments made from age 67 onwards.
Line 14 is the sum of the preceding two lines and is the number to compare to line 10.
Line 12 gives the "present value" in the year 2024 of the $1750 payments made from age 67 onwards.
Line 13 gives the "future value" in the year 2024 of the $1750 payments made from age 62-67 (2019-2024).

The "Interest rate 67+" isn't significant, since it has the same impact on lines 10 and 12. What does make a difference is the interest rate applied to the monthly payments received from age 62-67. In this example I've adjusted that interest rate (cell B6) until I got the same total for the two options (this is what David was trying to do).

If you bring the "Interest rate 62-67" down to 2% to match the other interest rate, you can then adjust the "Expiry age" downwards to see at what age the two options are equivalent. That's age 81 for this example.

Chris

SSAge62vs67.png
 
/ retiring #332  
Isn't there some rule about continuing to earn money when on SS? Like your payments are reduced by $1 for every $2 you earn over the current year limit.

Based on current numbers, as far as I can tell I wouldn't get a dime, so no point claiming until the max. May not get any then either, but at least I won't have lost anything.

The above all based on the fact that I don't intend to stop "working" until I can't. I mean, why stop doing what you love? Especially when you're getting paid for it?
 
/ retiring #333  
Isn't there some rule about continuing to earn money when on SS? Like your payments are reduced by $1 for every $2 you earn over the current year limit.

Based on current numbers, as far as I can tell I wouldn't get a dime, so no point claiming until the max. May not get any then either, but at least I won't have lost anything.

The above all based on the fact that I don't intend to stop "working" until I can't. I mean, why stop doing what you love? Especially when you're getting paid for it?
That's only if you start collecting at 62. I don't remember the formula but while you do get penalized on the short term it gets applied to your payments once you reach your maturity date... in my case at 66 years, 10 months.
 
/ retiring #334  
I mentioned this before , but it is important. When you die, your spouse gets your SS payment and loses theirs (assuming yours is greater). So, if you wait until 70 to begin SS , you leave a nice inflation adjusted monthly payment to see your spouse through the rest of her / his life.

I had my wife take hers at 62 and I took spousal (half what hers would have been at age 66), then I'll take mine at 70. In all likelihood I'll kick first and she gets the stepped up payment. Note that this only works if spouse was born before 1/1/1954 and you are 66 when you begin spousal benefits.
 
/ retiring #335  
A lot of people die between 62and 67 so there is the possibility of never collecting a dime from SS if you don't live that long.
My advice is to take it early and enjoy life, that's what I did.
 
/ retiring #336  
A lot of people die between 62and 67 so there is the possibility of never collecting a dime from SS if you don't live that long.
My advice is to take it early and enjoy life, that's what I did.

And the break even date is closer to 80 years old. I didn’t bother doing the math myself so I didn’t know of that number included interest or not.
 
/ retiring #337  
A lot of people die between 62and 67 so there is the possibility of never collecting a dime from SS if you don't live that long.
My advice is to take it early and enjoy life, that's what I did.
If it were not for Medicare kicking in at 65 I might be thinking that way. When I cut the cord from work I want to cut the cord completely and having to cough up a bunch of money for maybe iffy medical would be a tough one.
 
/ retiring #338  
Being self employed. I have always had to pay for my insurance. So when I gave up working, It was no big deal to continue to pay health insurance.
 
/ retiring #339  
I've been making a lot more than 3% on my SS payouts. Plus, I'm spending money on stuff I want NOW and can still enjoy NOW. When I'm 77, those things will be hanging on the wall unused, un-driven, uneaten, un-thinkable, un-appreciatd and un-enjoyable.
 
/ retiring #340  
That's what I don't yet understand. Doesn't medicare kick in at 65 for most?

Unless you qualify for disability, medicare starts the month of your birth of your 65th year. So for most medicare starts at 65. Mine started November 1st. :)
 

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