Retort Canning

[etpm]

Anybody doing this? After I got my chamber vacuum sealer I wondered if I could vacuum seal stuff and then pressure can it. It turns out that I can. It is called Retort Canning and has been around commercially since the mid 1960s. Currently I can stuff in jars and steel cans. I like the cans for various reasons, I can pack them tighter than jars, they are less fragile, and are light tight. But cans are much more expensive than glass jars. Retort bags seem to offer the best of both worlds, they are light tight, are packed tighter than cans or jars, and are unbreakable, and are cheap. Cheap like glass jars but light tight like cans. So I'm gonna do a little more research on the safety of retort canning, see if there any USDA guidelines, then buy a good book if available, watch some videos, and can some chicken for the first trial. After using my new chamber vacuum sealer for a few weeks now I am thoroughly impressed with it. It does such a better job than my old top of the line Seal-A-Meal vacuum sealer. And cost about the same.
Eric

 

[rumwrks]

I'm curious what you have for a can sealer, those were $$$$ when I last looked at them.

Also curious what chamber vac you ended up with - I've been eyeballing the avid armour for a few years, I've been real happy with their bag sealer after killing a couple of the cheaper ones over the years.

I can't find any extension or USDA published time guidelines on home canning in retort bags either. Interesting problem.

I think the main challenge is managing volumes and making sure that the bags are placed so that you have space around them. My reasoning for this is if you put two 1qt retort bags right next to each other they would behave closer to how a single 2qt bag would behave (worse ofc for 4 bags that are now like a gallon and cook time isn't linear with size.. *waves hands vaguely at thermal mass, power square law, etc..*). You'd also want to consider how much they sag so you're distance->center isn't highly variable (which would ditto affect the time to temp at the core of the stuff in the bag).

I think both of those problems could be solved with an appropriately sized and shaped wire rack of some sort. Once you've solved that you could compare distance->center and total volume to jar or can and probably get pretty close using those as a baseline for time guidelines. The bags would let heat in a touch faster, but they're oddly shaped still so it's probably +- some small amount there but likely not enough to throw it way off.

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

I am interested in the retort canning, hadn't heard this before.

I purchased my Avid armor USV20 almost a month ago after eyeing it for about a year. So far only sacked some t bones.

We usually buy meats on sale and then vacuum sack them (bass pro model). It seemed to be not sealing as well over the years and air would get in it. I was hoping the chamber vac would be better. Time will tell. Waiting for a whole ribeye or fillet to go on sale.

I would have thought the bags would have been thicker for the chamber vac. They appear to be about the same thickness as the roll of bags I bought at Walmart. Supposed to be able to sack soups /jars and such. Wife loves to make home made soups so we will sack some of that upcoming soon.

I don't think the chamber vac is faster so far.

 

[etpm]

I'm curious what you have for a can sealer, those were $$$$ when I last looked at them.

Also curious what chamber vac you ended up with - I've been eyeballing the avid armour for a few years, I've been real happy with their bag sealer after killing a couple of the cheaper ones over the years.

I can't find any extension or USDA published time guidelines on home canning in retort bags either. Interesting problem.

I think the main challenge is managing volumes and making sure that the bags are placed so that you have space around them. My reasoning for this is if you put two 1qt retort bags right next to each other they would behave closer to how a single 2qt bag would behave (worse ofc for 4 bags that are now like a gallon and cook time isn't linear with size.. *waves hands vaguely at thermal mass, power square law, etc..*). You'd also want to consider how much they sag so you're distance->center isn't highly variable (which would ditto affect the time to temp at the core of the stuff in the bag).

I think both of those problems could be solved with an appropriately sized and shaped wire rack of some sort. Once you've solved that you could compare distance->center and total volume to jar or can and probably get pretty close using those as a baseline for time guidelines. The bags would let heat in a touch faster, but they're oddly shaped still so it's probably +- some small amount there but likely not enough to throw it way off.

I don't remember the brand name but here is a link to the machine: Manual Operation Sealer Equipped for #1, #2, & #2 1/2 Cans
They are expensive but I got mine in a thrift store for 30 bucks. The sealer I bought is a Vevor DZ 260 and I paid about $250.00 delivered. I don't know yet if it will seal retort bags. It will seal mylar bags though. The retort bags must be packed pretty tightly so that they don't burst during processing, according to what I have been reading and seeing. I know about the lack of USDA guidelines and this bothers me. But lots of people are doing retort canning at home and I have not been able ti find and reports of people being poisoned by bad product.
Eric

 

[etpm]

Supposed to be able to sack soups

Yeah, you can sack liquids. I have done it with my sealer and it works great. Just fill the bag with the liquid, lay the opening across the sealer bar, close the lid and press start. I have even filled bags with water and sealed them. Easy as pie.
Eric

 

[newkiotiguy]

I am interested in the retort canning, hadn't heard this before.

I purchased my Avid armor USV20 almost a month ago after eyeing it for about a year. So far only sacked some t bones.

We usually buy meats on sale and then vacuum sack them (bass pro model). It seemed to be not sealing as well over the years and air would get in it. I was hoping the chamber vac would be better. Time will tell. Waiting for a whole ribeye or fillet to go on sale.

I would have thought the bags would have been thicker for the chamber vac. They appear to be about the same thickness as the roll of bags I bought at Walmart. Supposed to be able to sack soups /jars and such. Wife loves to make home made soups so we will sack some of that upcoming soon.

I don't think the chamber vac is faster so far.

The bags come in multiple thicknesses. The 3 mil are very thin. I don't use those. 4 mill is pretty durable. The 5 mill is nice for meat with cut bones.

 

[etpm]

The bags come in multiple thicknesses. The 3 mil are very thin. I don't use those. 4 mill is pretty durable. The 5 mill is nice for meat with cut bones.

How much retort canning have you done? I have done lots of canning in jars and cans but the whole retort thing is new to me. What guidelines do you use for pressure and time and for what meats. I was thinking about using the 4.6 mil bags. I have not seen the 3 mil retort bags. They might better suited to my sealer but I would rather use slightly thicker bags for durability. I wish I could buy a small sampling of bags to see which bags might work with my vacuum sealer. I love my chamber vacuum sealer and it sure would be handy to be able use it with retort bags.
Eric

 

[rumwrks]

They are expensive but I got mine in a thrift store for 30 bucks.

Wow, that was an amazing deal. Nice find!

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

I went through my freeze dried stuff I had made over the last year or so. Disappointingly found moths had chewed holes in some of the mylar bags. I was thinking those were 5 mil. Was planning to use that and the chamber vac to seal up excess meals. Some being frozen wouldn't be affected by the moths.

Gonna store the unrefrigerated bagged stuff in metal tins like a 30 gallon trashcan with a lid.

On a mission now to eradicate the moths. They came in from a bag of dog treats, I think from Pet smart or TSC. They don't make it just resell it.

We haven't ever had an infestation like this before. no idea how destructive they can be until now.