retro fitting 8' T12 fluorescent light fixtures

[Gitche Gumee Kid]

Great feedback, guys.
Any other input or suggestions of alternate make over on the shop lights will be appreciated by me and I'm sure by others here as well.

GGK

 

[rkicklighter]

My first post in the forums so go easy on me! Being an electrical engineer for 30+ years and growing up being taught to do it myself, I will add my experience.

I too have several 8' fluorescents in my shop and numerous 4' ones in the house. About a year ago I had ballast going on in the 2 4' fixtures in my kitchen and finding out it was going to cost close to $100 for ballast and bulbs, I looked at an alternate route we have started using in industrial areas, LED. There are several companies who make LED replacements for fluorescent tubes, I chose to get mine through Amazon from a company called LED-Wholesalers out of California. a set of 4 bulbs are about $120 so not much different from the new bulb / ballast cost.

To install the LED replacements, you remove the ballast and connect the two power legs (L-N) to one of the bulb holders for each of the lamps and button things back up. That's it, nothing else to do.

The first time I turned these things on, I was hooked! The light output for the kitchen was double what the fluorescents were and it was a much whiter light, making it easier to see what you're doing! I also checked the current usage before and after. With 2 of the 4' fluorescents on one switch, current draw was 4+ amps. With the LEDs, less than 1 amp. Not to mention they generate NO heat at all and should last a lot longer.

All that said, that's what I plan to do in my shop. Replace the 8' fixtures with 2 4' ones and use LED bulbs in them. Many times, if you're patient, the 4' fixtures can be found with no guts in them for little to no cost.

Just my .02 worth... Maybe it will offer ideas to someone...

 

[Gary Fowler]

Do you have a good source for the bulbs?

Last time I looked they were more expensive than a T8 fixture and each bulb put out far fewer lumens, around 800 or less compared to a T8 of 3000.

I got mine at Lowes and Walmart also has the standard screw in type for about $20 each, but that was 3 years ago. They should be cheaper now as the prices continue to come down on LED. You will have to source online for any specialty type bulbs though. There are so many different types of bulbs in the LED line that one should be able to find just about any style. The lumen rating is deceptive with the LED lamps. They are so bright and give off a much whiter light than fluorescent bulbs. I wish I could find some locally with the small base to change out my chandelier light fixtures with. I have 3 different base sizes in my light fixtures that use bulbs other than LED. Likely could find some online if I looked hard enough.

I have a few CFL bulbs also but I don't like them. They don't last the hours claimed for one thing and the light is not a bright white which I seem to need more and more as I age in order to see properly at night. I have replaced 3 of them in my bathroom in the last 3 years. Another thing about them, if you can get them to last for any amount of years, they get slower and slower lighting up, they are dim when they first come on. I have some outside flood lights that I put CFL bulbs in and it takes several minutes for them to come on bright enough to see anything with and this is since new. They may have been used 3 hours in 3 years. Biggest mistake I made was putting those in. They do burn much less electricity than standard bulbs and put out a sufficient light when they finally warm up.

The CFLs in my bathroom seem to come on quick enough but aren't very bright considering I have 6 of them in the room. They do make a soft romantic light, but then who needs that in a bathroom.

 

[Rio_Grande]

What did they outlaw?

We just put in 9 new t9 HO 8 footers. Those things weren't cheap and I already have one bad ballast, wasn't right out of the box. Hope these things are still servable for some years to come.

 

[Ken]

Do you have a good source for the bulbs?

Last time I looked they were more expensive than a T8 fixture and each bulb put out far fewer lumens, around 800 or less compared to a T8 of 3000.

There is a new catalog that I just received from Quality, low cost indoor & outdoor lighting products | e-conolight.com e-conolight
And they are giving a 15% discount for purchases
I'm looking at the lay in troffers 2x4 that uses 50 watt fort 5000 Lumens for 194 bucks buy a bunch it is cheaper.
LEDs maybe just what is needed to reduce power costs.
Maybe call for a catalog ther is a lot of choices.

ken

 

[newbury]

My first post in the forums so go easy on me! Being an electrical engineer for 30+ years and growing up being taught to do it myself, I will add my experience.

I too have several 8' fluorescents in my shop and numerous 4' ones in the house. About a year ago I had ballast going on in the 2 4' fixtures in my kitchen and finding out it was going to cost close to $100 for ballast and bulbs, I looked at an alternate route we have started using in industrial areas, LED. There are several companies who make LED replacements for fluorescent tubes, I chose to get mine through Amazon from a company called LED-Wholesalers out of California. a set of 4 bulbs are about $120 so not much different from the new bulb / ballast cost.

To install the LED replacements, you remove the ballast and connect the two power legs (L-N) to one of the bulb holders for each of the lamps and button things back up. That's it, nothing else to do.

The first time I turned these things on, I was hooked! The light output for the kitchen was double what the fluorescents were and it was a much whiter light, making it easier to see what you're doing! I also checked the current usage before and after. With 2 of the 4' fluorescents on one switch, current draw was 4+ amps. With the LEDs, less than 1 amp. Not to mention they generate NO heat at all and should last a lot longer.

All that said, that's what I plan to do in my shop. Replace the 8' fixtures with 2 4' ones and use LED bulbs in them. Many times, if you're patient, the 4' fixtures can be found with no guts in them for little to no cost.

Just my .02 worth... Maybe it will offer ideas to someone...

www.LEDwholesalers.com - Brightest 20 Watt 4-foot T8 T10 T12 LED Tube Lights 45W Fluorescent Tube Replacement UL Approved

This reads like a great solution for failing ballasts in 4' T12 tubes if you don't want to replace the fixture.

However my "price points" are a dual T8 fluorescent 4' fixture from Home Depot for $20 and 2 bulbs for about $5. The fixture put's out about 5,000 lumens w/ both bulbs. With total power consumption about 65 Watts/hour they cost about $.0065 per hour to run at my rate of about $0.10/kw.

With about 40 T12 fixtures, 26 of which are 8 foot, to replace over the next few years (and at least 5 SOON) the difference in bulb cost ($5 for two T8's vs $60 for 2 LED) far outweighs any savings in electricity. Especially if I have to replace the fixtures anyways.

Also I can't figure out how 2 LED bulbs rated at 4,000 lumen total can put out more light than 2 T8 bulbs rated at 5,000 lumen (or more) total.

/edit - assuming we are comparing "white" LED's at 5000K and T8's at 5000K. I might understand it if you go from a "warm" T8 to a "white" LED.

 

[rkicklighter]

What I put in was the 5-6000K replacements. Not sure what was in all the other fixtures inside my house(probably warm white) but these are a magnitude brighter and a different color temp.

 

[flusher]

What did they outlaw?

We just put in 9 new t9 HO 8 footers. Those things weren't cheap and I already have one bad ballast, wasn't right out of the box. Hope these things are still servable for some years to come.

T12's are gone. T8's will follow soon, IMHO, here in CA and then nationwide.

Here's a good summary of the situation:

Light Bulbs, Legislation, and How It Affects You

 

[cockeyedMFer]

Thanks for the link, I didn't realize T8 was just as vulnerable as T12.

A friend worked as a travelling installer performing T8 retrofits on commercial property like supermarkets, box stores, etc. He gutted the old 8' fixtures and installed a lightweight electronic ballast which powered 2 - 48" T8 bulbs. Just 2, not a 4x48" setup. The new lampholders were installed in place of the old ones with a bracket and several self tapping screws. He could do one unit in a matter of minutes.

He was able to get me several samples for my garage at home and WOW what a difference those 2 bulbs made in place of my old CFL screw in bulbs.

Unfortunately the retrofit kits are almost the same price as a new 4x48" T8 unit from Home Depot and you get more Watts per square foot anyway. I guess the savings for large buildings is in not having to tear down entire fixtures and putting up new ones. And I thought I was going to end up with a bunch of cheap lights by converting all these ancient surplus 277V chassis I had laying around

For T8, the best prices appear to be Lithonia's 4 bulb, 96" long unit at home depot ($40) and the Phillips FLT741 32W bulbs. Also at Home Depot, they average out to $1.80 each when you buy a case.

Am going to try T5's soon too, as I ended up with a couple new units from an auction. Amazingly thin bulbs, aren't they?

 

[mikehaugen]

My understanding is that 96" t12 h.o. (110 watts) are not being outlawed... something to do with lighted signs. I still buy them. Perhaps you can just put h.o. ballasts (about $35) and switch to the h.o. bulbs? Mine have the 2 pin recessed ends.