ROPS Welding

[jba3520]

When I bought my tractor I went through the same dilemma. The dilemma was resolved however when my dealer informed me that if I modified the ROPS in any way and then decided to trade in my tractor, they would deduct the cost of installing a new ROPS from the trade-in value.

They will not sell a tractor with a modified ROPS. They apparently were sued and prosecuted for reckless endangerment when one of thier customers was killed in a rollover accident, on a tractor they sold with a modified ROPS.

There are lots of ways to attach lights without welding or drilling.

 

[thingy]

Roy,of course welding causes metallurgical changes to the metal,,saying that says nothing,everybody knows that.The question is is it harmfull to the intended service of the thing being welded,,on many things its not,and I'm saying that the roll bar is made out of one that it ain't.[again assuming you got a quality weld on it].
Arc strikes,,know about them too,an arc strike is not a weld,,rapid heating of small spot,rapid cooling,generally leaving a very small pit,,,which could result in a crack,,a weld is not that,we're not talking about putting arc strikes all over it.
The term high strength steel,,means very little,,many different kinds of high strength steel,some made so by carbon content and heating/ cooling,most are made by adding an alloy to it,,which would make it an alloy steel really,,some of it is welded every day with 60/70 filler,without preheat or post heat,,,so saying you can't weld on high strength steel is wrong Roy
You don't know what its made of either,you're just saying you can't weld on it,you can weld anykind of steel Roy,some you need to take special precautions,,pre and post heat,hardness testing,stricter weld quality requirements,nde,,etc,,,many are considered easily welded without all that,,it also depends on thickness. thingy

 

[RoyJackson]

"Roy,of course welding causes metallurgical changes to the metal,,saying that says nothing,everybody knows that..."

Thingy, there's a lot of folks on TBN who don't have a lot of technical or hands on experience. We don't want to assume they know things...which is one reason they ask questions here.

All we can give them is opinions (note my signature line below) based upon our experiences or research. A really good example is the thread Mars1952 started in the Safety Forum concerning rollovers. There was a substantial amount of research done on that thread and the links provided.

Modifying any safety device entails risk. If the device fails, it could be lethal. Or, it could cost nothing more then having to replace parts at trade in time. Or a lawsuit in the event of an accident. If an operator decides to take the risk...that's fine, as long as he or she is making an informed decision.

I'll grant you, I am a safety freak. I also don't want to see CUTs regulated excessively due to owner/operator mistakes that could be easily avoided.

 

[Hangfire]

I cannot speak to whether welding will affect ROPS or not, but I can speak to the legal implications. I have been on both sides of many product liability lawsuits. If a product, such as a ROPS fails, then, depending on what side of the lawsuit you are on the following will occur:

1. If you are injured or killed, the plaintiff's attorney will likely hire multiple experts to include a metallurgist. These experts will opine that any modifications done by the injured or deceased party did not substantially change the design and function of the ROPS and it was therefore in the same or substantially the same condition at the time of the accident as when placed into the stream of commerce by the manufacturer. If someone else modified the ROPS, the plaintiff's attorney may make the same or opposite argument depending on the existence of insurance or assets.

2. If you are the manufacturer, modifier or seller of a ROPS which was subsequently modified by someone else, your experts will opine that the modification materially altered the design or function of the ROPS. If you modified the ROPS or sold a modified ROPS, then your experts will likely opine the opposite.

In otherwords, it is one big circle using experts to make one's case. What will happen, who will be successful, will all depend on specific facts, not the least of which will be did the modification alter the function of the ROPS. If, however, there is never a modification to the ROPS, then that will not be an issue. In that case the arguments will likely revolve around whether it was properly designed, manufactured and whether it was being used in a reasonably anticipated manner at the time of the accident. Hopefully, none of us will ever be in any of the positions outlined above.

 

[eiznekcm]

Hello everyone,
I have a question. Since just about everyone out there wants to add lights or some other type of brackets to their ROPS, do any of the ROPS manufacturers have tested ROPS with brackets already installed? If not does anyone on here have a contact in the business that can offer the suggestion? Just curious.
Craig

 

[thcri]

We could all sit here an argue for days on this. But why even do it?? The manufacture says NO! If you have any lawsuit you will assume all liability. What the heck is wrong with clamping it??? Some of them look pretty darn nice. I have mine on magnet mounts. I only use mine when the loader is on. When my loader is off I can take my lights off. I can move them around to point to work areas. So again, why even weld or drill???


murph

 

[thingy]

Murph,,of course you could clamp something on it,you could also drill a few small holes and screw or bolt something to it,,and you could weld something to it,the question was,listen now,can the man weld somekinda bracket to roll bar to put a light on it,,WELD IT.
Hangfire,,know nothing about sueing people,but again the question was can he weld a little bracket or angle to bar,,not some hypothetical dooms day event that may happen or not down the road to someone at sometime. Some people must think this rollbar is made outta some speical steel that is strong,but if you put a little weld on it it turns to glass or something and I'm here telling you that ain't the case. Yeah,the manufactors got all kinds of rules and regulations and some for a good reason,cause they gotta assume the worst case and cover their @##,and some just cause some lawyer said if you say this most people won't read it and we got them if the time comes and we save money,,its a sue happy country made so by lawyers more than normal peoples greed. I'm just assuming the guy owns the tractor,and is an adult,with common sense,,also suggested to not do it if he was going to make a nasty weld with holes and under cut,,also assume its just a few inches at most of weld he is going to do,[he did say lights,not cutting bar into and making it longer or wider or something],,and I'm saying,he can do this safely,without worrying about the rollbar shattering or something else strange.
Roy,of course thats the reason people asks questions,,,I ask some myself,,but its nice to get the right answer,,this has evolved into a legal issue with manufactor,not if the guy can weld a light bracket onto his roll bar,,there may be reasons he don't want to,,just saying from a welding point of view,they ain't one,,,and again,that was the question. thingy

 

[Hangfire]

Thingy, I was responding to posts referencing litigation, not yours. My post started out: "I cannot speak to whether welding will affect the ROPS or not ..."

 

[MikePA]

This is a common question from new owners, particularly when they find out headlights are all but useless on most FEL equipped tractors.

When there are several alternatives to welding and drilling, e.g., magnetic, epoxy, clamps, I don't see why anyone would weld or drill. But as every other thread about this has mentioned, it's your tractor, do what you want. Me, I bought square clamps at TSC, painted them black and used them to attach the lights to the ROPS.

 

[RoyJackson]

"Roy,of course thats the reason people asks questions,,,I ask some myself,,but its nice to get the right answer,,this has evolved into a legal issue with manufactor,not if the guy can weld a light bracket onto his roll bar,,there may be reasons he don't want to,,just saying from a welding point of view,they ain't one,,,and again,that was the question."

The manufacturers state it, safety organizations state it...Don't modify the ROPS
Thingy, unless you've done testing per the SAE spec...you really can't state welding doesn't degrade the ROPS because you don't know.

Reckon that's all I say on this topic... It's going in circles now.