Rotella Synthetic Oil Application Question

[CenturyGreg]

My new tractor lists the recommended oil viscosities as Winter:5W30 or 10W30. Summer:10W30, 15W30, or 15W40. Very hot conditions: 15W40 or 20W50. I would like to use Shell Rotella Synthetic 5W40 in the tractor but am not sure if I should since 5W40 is not a listed viscosity. The oil does meet the required API class (CF). Is a broader viscosity range like a 5W40 always better than a narrower one like a 15W40 or do I need to stick with one of the recommended viscosities? Thank You!

 

[gsxr1100]

Well first off the oil you want to use is a group 3 oil (hydrocrack dino). Not a true synthetic oil. Hence the low price of 12.XX at your local walmart.

Next the viscosities that are recommended are for dino temps. You can't make a call on viscosities till you see how shear stable the fluid is, the add pkg, etc. The 15w-40 could be better or not.

If you are worried about the viscosities, look at the temp you are going to run the unit it. Then select an oil accordingly. I run 15w-40 year round in Massachusetts.

You could run any oil you want as long as it meets the proper ASTM, SAE, API spec.

 

[cowboydoc]

IN winter the 5w-30 would be ok if you don't plan on running your tractor hard. I would certainly stick with 15w-40 in anything but winter. The problem is the shear forces of a diesel are very hard on oil. I don't care if it's amsoil, shell, etc. If you are going to be running your diesel hard at all I would stick with 15w-40.

 

[gsxr1100]

Well I do not know if that is true. I know that Amsoil Series 3000 5w-30 has a beefier add package and will be trying this oil compared to their 15w-40 (which I use).

It has been posted that this oil does not shear as much (or stays in their proper grade) unlike some of there other oils. There 15w-40 HDD&M does thin and when looking at other users of there 3000 oil, it does not.

So we will see.

So based on that I would say a 15w-40 would or should have a better add pkg then a 5w-30 (dino world); Also I would not recommend a 15w-40 in the northeast or cold areas.


But in the group 4 and 5 this is not the case. These oils are more shear stable as users tests have shown.

 

[_RaT_]

Why not just go with a synthetic 15W40 year round and call it good. Simplify the whole decision. With the amount of time the typical user here puts on a tractor, it'll last a lifetime with any of the recommended oil's.

 

[CenturyGreg]

I thought the Rotella was a true synthetic since it says "Synthetic" on the jug. What is a hydrocrack dino? If I want a true synthetic oil for my tractor with the information I listed above, what is the best oil for me? I would assume that with Amsoil's reputation, and the fact that they have a 15W40 that I should probably use that year around. I looked at Amsoils web-site and I see that this oil is supposed to be very effective in the cold, would this eliminate the need to go with a lighter weight in the winter here in Pennsylvania? Thanks.

 

[gsxr1100]

I agree with Rat. Use a synthetic, group 4 or 5 and use it all year round. Or use any, ANY group 4 or 5 year round and call it a day.

That it what I do. I am only using a 5w-30 for 1-year to compare it to their 15w-40 synthetic

Shell Rotella T uses Group II and Group II+ base oils. It also has Shell's proprietary XHVI base oil which is waxy fluid. This processs gets a much "purer" oil & higher VI than other hydrocracked(group 3).

So it is not a true synthetic. It is as much a synthetic as Amsoil XL7500 series oils (group 3).

 

[CenturyGreg]

I am becoming more lost by the second!! If I am understanding correctly, the Amsoil would be better than the Rotella T 15W40 or the Rotella Synthetic 5W40. Also, can I use either the Series 3000 5W30 or the 15W40 Diesel & Marine year around and still properly protect my engine here in the northeast? Winter temps. get as cold as -15 to -20 and summer temps. break 100. Also, do you think the 5W30 or the 15W40 would be a better fit? Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Greg,

Rat had it right. Just go with a good 15w-40 synthetic and you will be fine. Rotella synthetic is just fine. We've run it for thousands of hours on tractors that get beat into the ground and our tractors have lasted thousands of hours. I completely disagree that you should run 5w-40 year round. I know guys that have done that and it has led to alot of problems, especially in 100 degree weather. Don't let people try and confuse you. Rotella has more research than anyone out there on their oils. It's the #1 used OTR oil so that should tell you something.

 

[CenturyGreg]

The synthetic Rotella is a 5W40 though. The regular Rotella T is a 15W40 but is not synthetic. Do you mean that you use the Rotella T 15W40 or the Rotella synthetic 5W40?

 

[_RaT_]

I don't use a synthetic, I use Delo 15W40 which is similar to Rotella 15W40, my climate is very mild with but a day or two below 32 deg. For my needs, it works fine but I also understand that the colder climates will indeed benefit from a synthetic especially if your like me and just get going with very little warm up time. There are more benefits to synthetic then just that but I am pretty sure many other things will be pretty well worn out on my tractor before the engine. If Rotella is not available in a synthetic and you would like to experiment with a synthetic, I would still consider a 15W40, I think there are some name brand synthetics in the 15W40 viscosity that would be fine. Amsoil is certainly a consideration as well. My Kubota manual says to use 10W30 or 15W40. I've read where the new 5WXX is the new way for diesel oils but will wait until the manufactuer suggests it. They did a pretty good job designing everything else so I don't think I will second guess them on oil recommendations.

PS I experimented with Redline 10W30 but that lasted one change. It is a synthetic oil and costs $8 a quart. I use 6.5 quarts per change so it was not a huge investment, but still more then I wanted to do continuously. It definitely was different then the standard "dino" oil, smell, feel, taste (kidding) but whether that was good or not, I am not sure. I've also used Amsoil 15W40 which at half that cost may well be in your best interest if a synthetic interest's you.

 

[gsxr1100]

Amosil would be better since the oils you want to use, Rotella, are not a true synthetic. You can not get a real synthetic for $13 a gallon. I am pro Amsoil and have go around this debate till the cows come home. Amsoil is a better oil and the test show it but most time the people do not want to pay the price.

Amsoil Series 3000 5w30 will be the best year round if I had to choose but I would use there 15w-40 (in Mass) since it is cheaper and I have gone very long on drains it keeps up pretty darn well. Do not tray that will the cheaper oil kids.

With the cold temps you get I would NOT use a 15w-40 hydrocracked oil. No way. IF you do I would do oil testing to check the wear numbers in the spring.

I could go one and on but I know I like high ZDDP and ZERO ash in my oil.

 

[cowboydoc]

Greg,

Anymore we just use the Rotella 15w-40. Rat said Delo and that is certainly just as good. It all comes down to what you are comfortable doing. If and only if you are going to extend your drains does it do any good to use a synthetic. Another thing that is rarely mentioned on tractors with synthetic is the dirt, oil, water, etc. that gets into tractors. Tractors do not operate in a clean environment like cars, trucks, etc. do. Even the best filter out there is not going to help you here. Personally I would not do an extended drain on a tractor if I was really using it, but that's personal opinion based on our own studies and over 40 different tractors and numerous trucks. Most people on this board don't even put a 100 hours on their tractor a year so they could use the cheapest oil out there and still say their tractor is doing great. In planting, haying, harvest we'll put a 100 hours on a tractor in a week.

The reason I say this is because there is not one study out there that compares the wear patterns between synthetic and regular oil. Mike said, <font color="red">With the cold temps you get I would NOT use a 15w-40 hydrocracked oil. No way. IF you do I would do oil testing to check the wear numbers in the spring.
</font>. Well we did do the numbers. That is not a concern in the least for wear in the cold like synthetic mfg. would like you to think. We did our own study to see if it would benefit us to use synthetic. Over 30,000 hours of using synthetic in a two year period on multiple tractors the wear #'s were no different using synthetic and regular dino oil. We get cold down to -30. All of our tractors and trucks are tested regularly. If we were getting abnormal wear patterns with dino we would know. There was no difference in the patterns the two years before using dino, the two years using synthetic, and the two years following using dino again. I know guys around us that are avid synthetic users and their hours are similiar. I've talked to numerous tractor and truck mechanics and they've all said they didn't really see any long term difference between the two with regard to tear downs. This was proven also in the big trucks where they didn't notice alot of difference between tear downs either.

I'm not saying that synthetic is bad. It certainly is a good oil if you want to do extended drains. On cars, light trucks, etc. it's probably a good thing if you want to chance your warranty. Personally I'm not going to chance it. There is too much room for contamination and I'm not going to mess with mfg. recommendations if there is ever an issue with warranty.

We operate from a real world view, not what looks good on a bottle or in someone's advertisement or what I read on the internet. We are very forward thinking and it has allowed us to be profitable in an age when farming and ranching isn't very profitable. We listen to what the experts have to say and then try it out. I can tell you most of the time in a real world application it's vastly different from a "made-up" world that you can just read about and blabber about like it is real. I see from your bio that you are a trucker. I'm sure you are aware of the trucking craze several years back when everyone tryed the extended drains in trucking. It was a mess to say the least. There's a reason less than 5% of the OTR trucks use synthetic and it's not because it's overall a better deal for them.

Make your own decision but don't get caught up in the hype. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[gsxr1100]

Greg,
First off I believe our tractor have air filter and oil filters. So far all the things some people worry about would not be an issue if they used quality items. As far as I know air filers filter air, oil filters filter oil etc. If you have issue with high levels in oil, get a better filters.

Next is that so far I am pro synthetic since the price is so small between Rotella (a dino) and Amsoils 15w-40 (group 4/5) why not spend the extra few dollars? People will spend the dollars on there items and buy oil at Walmart. From all the reading on Walmart, they base there items on profit/price not quality.

Also so far I have posted an oil test, and have others which I can post) and will be doing another this month. The people that TALK say it is some oil is better but I do not see any numbers here. Look at the number when new. A group 3 is below a group 4/5 hence the lower price. You get what you pay for, period.

Next is the warranty, which is pointless. They is to scare people into thinking it will do something & does nothing and no proof. I have never had an issue since doing longer drains, ever. I have been doing it almost ten years. I asked Amsoil on this issue and the guy laughed. I wonder why Mobil, Fleetguard and Redline are all doing/do it. It is a scare tactic that most people bit into when it is untrue.

You can ask all the “experts” in the real world and listen to everyone person out there. Just look at the numbers and see which is better. In my application a group 3 performed poorly when I used it in the past. Also if you are running a turbo I would like ash in the oil (which group 3 have). Also I would not run a dino in a turbo engine.

To close, look at what the world is going to and it is not short drains and dino oils. As cowboy stated do not get caught in the hype. For me I would ask people (related to oil or engineers) or look up some spec ASMT or SAE and do some reading. My wifes SUV gets only about 15K miles per year, which I drain once per year. Even if, big IF, dino performed the same but at shorter drains (hence more oils changes), my time & aggravation are worth the extra money; unless you like messing with used oil etc.

 

[cowboydoc]

Mike,

How in the world would you know what does and doesn't work in a severe application for a tractor? You have a little BX23. Nice unit but you put what maybe 100-200 hours a year on it? What oil wouldn't perform in those conditions? You live in the city, you aren't in a dust filled environment for days on end with your tractor, you aren't running it sometimes 24/7 for days on end, you aren't continually hooking up implements to the hydraulics. Nothing that simulates a real world harsh environment where contamination even with the best of filters out there is a reality. I mean what do you think that we just use a piece of junk filter on a dang $250,000 combine or tractor? We use the best ones out there. My data and my facts are based on what has worked in a real world, harsh environment. There is no cost benefit for us to use synthetic. This has also been the findings of thousands of OTR trucks as well. You on your kubota sure it doesn't matter much. To us it's thousands of dollars. It's not a small price difference as you mention. Rotella is about $1.15/quart. Amsoil is over $4/quart. If it protected better you bet we'd be using it but it doesn't. And long drains in our situation are completely out of the question.

You mentioned your wife's vehicle and I agree there you bet synthetic is probably the best thing to do. But you are wrong about the warranty. Anything you put on a vehicle or tractor is grounds to void the warranty. Don't believe it then I think you better do a little more investigating. Warranties are being denied right and left for diesels that have aftermarket additions. That's a fact not a myth. And sure Amsoil is going to laugh at it. They would be out of business if the whole extended drain thing was put down.

And just for the record I am not anti-synthetic at all. If there was a cost benefit to using it we would. If a person is fine with the cost and such great. Just be cautious about extended drains if you are in warranty or working in harsh conditions. For most people that have one little tractor and for vehicles it probably is the best thing to do. Why don't you try letting me post my information and you post yours without always getting into a whizzing contest about it. Yours isn't the only situation out there with regards to tractors and vehicles. Our different situations probably represent the extreme ends of the scale. How about from now on you post what works for you and I'll post what works for me and we just respect each others situation and what works best in each of our very different environments.

 

[gsxr1100]

Richard,
#1 You state data you have done “real world”, lets see it. Well? you stated </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Amsoil is over $4/quart. If it protected better you bet we'd be using it but it doesn't. And long drains in our situation are completely out of the question.) )</font>

So far I see all talk....any data?

I live in a City? I did not know that. I do not drive in dusty conditions or on dirt roads? Hmm. You must know more then me. Think before you speak on this one because you look well, figure out the rest.

I also do not till in dusty conditions (dirt) with my bx, mow several areas over my friends grandparents to help, use my BH in dirt, use in 100+ or –18 below temps? Are we on the same planet?

Since you brought up price, I think the high price is a major issue for you. Maybe your local Walmart is your best option. If you worry about price shop there. If you want real products, you might have to look farther then a Roll-back. Again, you get what you pay for. Things cost more since most times they are better. Not rocket science.

I have friends that work on 18 wheelers all day for years. The extended drains are increasing due to companies wanting more profits and cutting costs. Also I know farmers that use both dino and synthetic and most time, the price is the #1 factor. It does not matter if the oil is better or not. The price is a factor for most.

#2 My wifes suv is fine running longer. Mercedes know it, My Lexus is fine and they know it (they even liked the results when I showed them), When I had my Powerchoke, Ford knew it also (the owner also installs there XL series), My Kubota dealer knows I am doing it on my BX and my Suzuki GSXR1100. My Suzuki had MAJOR engine problems for one complete year. Suzuki did not even have an issue with it. They stated, ”not an issue”.

No dealer can deny you anything. The oil is based on passing the proper requirements, not length of time; as any engineer can tell you. The oil has to be integral to the problem of the primary cause. Without that, again, warranty is a joke. They can’t deny you anything. If you think they can, you should also by losts of Duck tape in case we have a war some day! LOL

#3 So far all the “Warranties are being denied right and left for diesels” you state are all from so-called people you know. Post the data, my friend. Case closed. This issue has been brought up many times on other forums (Mercedes, Lexus, my bike) and so far they can’t deny you anything. I have heard it all from you need to do what the book states, keeps slips, have it done at certain dealers, blah blah. The stories change like the wind. Even my manufacture, Lexus, states I do not have to follow the book for oil drains and they WILL cover any issues. I have letters, do you?

So lets see the proof of them denying coverage?

I am not in a so-called, as you state it, “whizzing”. I have posted many things on used oil test, non-used oil tests and I can not post API, ASTM or SAE spec since there are copyrighted. I have old test when I ran a dino oil and then ran a synthetic. The dino was not even close.

All I said is that post the tests you have run or better yet the so-called denying covered. It is fairy tale at best.

I respect other people opinions but numbers, you know, data do not lie. I have posted several things (data) and the numbers are different; hence a better oil. You need to post some added value here since so far, talk it cheap. If I want cheap, I know where to shop. Also know which people to talk too.