rounded bolt head-hydro drain plug

[Cpjlube]

Soundguy- I agree in this case. I just always try the other ways first because I know I can never go back, if you know what I mean. In this case, yes weld it. Its already rounded. With the exception of strip sockets, if handy, or a pipe wrench. Already tried that, didnt work.
If it doesn't work, for some reason, drill it and easyout. For those of us that do this sort of stuff often it's just a matter of time before the plug comes out.

 

[Soundguy]

exactly.. it's not an if, but a when.. and knowing that. I prefer my when to be 2 minutes with a welder and hex nut, not 3-4 hours after I've tried 15 different destructive and non destructive ways.. and a variety of tools...

3-4 hours of my work time equates to alot of antique iron being worked on.. can't 'waste' that on a stubborn plug that i KNOW will come out.. I just make sure it comes out on my schedule.. not it's own..

soundguy

 

[Cpjlube]

I agree once again. With years of experience, comes the ability to know when those measures are required. When to stop trying other ways. I have found out though, that some people aren't able to weld or have the tools to drill and remove. Those skills come from time.

 

[the6shooter]

ok I went to the sears web site, the tool I am talking about is: Craftsman 10 pcs damaged bolt/nut remover, its also called a (Draw Tight Bolt Out). they sell for $29.99 at sears. I have a set but have never had to use them, lucky me for a change. Hope this helps
david

 

[Soundguy]

I have found out though, that some people aren't able to weld .

yep.. and the first time I welded, neither could i.. but I needed to join metal. didn't take long to teach myself. then I bought a small welded.. used it a few years then bought a real welder...

or have the tools to drill and remove. .

that's an opportuinty to visit the tool store.. ie.. adult toy store!
or better yet.. make yer own custom 1-of tools..

Those skills come from time.

yep.. nothing like needing to fix something to get you motivated to learn how to do it.. even if it is with the service manual in one hand and the other scratching your head. don't matter if it's a 2 hr job that takes you 4 the first time. after that it gets easier...

soundguy

 

[aebsmithcreek]

thanks fellas, great advice all around. i went in search of the sockets for stripped heads and the iggest i found was online-19mm, just a little smaller than needed without some filing or grinding and i dont want to wait on shipping. i did pick up some good punches and chisels, couldnt find 10 degree vise grips so i got 2 sizes of irwins to replace my chinese made tsc's. both me and the wife worked late so i didnt get to do anything this afternoon but after reading here and searching the net ive pretty much come around to SoundGuy's way of thinkin. i'm gona give the other methods a try only because of a good point a couple of guys pointed out....lack of experiance. i have welded most of my life and do pretty good on the bench or when i work horizontal but vertical and over head have always given me a pile of trouble. that bein said i aint gonna make a career out of it cause the payments gonna be made on the ol' girl tomorrow and it burns my butt to pay it with the tractor pretty much disabled. it will probably be friday before i get another chance to do anything with it and i have a fella in the community that goes to church with my wife who is a heavy equipment mechanic who said if i wait til saturday he will come down and give me hand so i may take him up on it. also on the way home from work this evening we passed a fella's place who used to work with my pa in law who if i remember right had a rep as a very good welder, he was a machinist at a power plant but if i remember right my pa in law always raved about his welding ability, may give him a call as well. what ever happens i will update here as soon as i am through jumpin for joy over havin my big green money eatin machine back onlline. i cant thank you all enough, when i first made this post i wouldnt have considerd stickin a rod up there but i'm about ready to try it, after all its already broke
thanks again.
earl.

 

[Soundguy]

next tool ya need is a trouble lamp.

I never let dark keep me from laying out under a tractor wrenching on it

PS.. the welded on nut don't have to be xra quality. just burn in a lil 6011 on the sides to t he nub.

who cares if it drips the puddle a lil.. you are not getting a grade on looks. just keep a couple parallel flats free for a wrench...

ps.. take a dood maul or drilling hammer. hit the nub squarely a few times, as if trying to drive it into the housing.

now done beat in t he bottom or anything.. just a couple sharp smacks. this will help you get a seized plug out by deforming the threads. i always smack em before even trying a tool on them. plus.. ona soft plug that is worn a lil.. the smack widens them a bit to fit the wrench again..

soundguy

 

[Don87]

I gotta ask this, cause no one else has...........and don't get offended.



Are you turning it the right way?



I can't count the number of times I've taken out bolts and drain plugs for friends that couldn't get them out. Turns out that when they turned upside down, they turned bolts in the opposite direction.


I always tell them.........righty tighty..........lefty loosey.......while your nose is pointed at it.

 

[Egon]

drill it and easyout./QUOTE]

If the welding gives you trouble the drill should work.:thumbsup:

 

[Soundguy]

if nothing else, a die grinder and those lil 3/16 and 1/4 " stones for sharpeninf a chainsaw will eat the ez out out.. milimeter by milimeter. likely use 2-3 stones.. but it will grind away from the abrasive..

soundguy

 

[aebsmithcreek]

no offense taken Don, its a valid question. yeah i did make sure with righty tighty...... already got work lights SoundGuy, just out of gas. my day starts before 5am and ends at the earliest at 6pm + a hour driving time to get home.
i hope it dont come to easy outs cause i have never used one that it didnt break off and create another project, maybe lack of skill on my part i admit but ya gotta work with what ya got. i really think welding a nut on is the way to go on a bolt this size, aint found it in the service manual but judging by the head size i'm thinkin 5/8, that on top of how tight it was torqed down sways me toward welding. oh man i just noticed the time, i gotta start playin catch up already, time to hit the door. hope you all have a great day today and a better tomorrow!!

earl.

 

[Soundguy]

i hear ya.. my day starts at 5:45 am, and doesn't usually end till 11pm, then a ride home and walk the dogs, then lucky to be in bed by midnight.

if you don't like easy-outs.. don't use them.

drill the bolt hollow, then keep stepping up in 6/4 sizes till you are 95% thru and just have a shell of threads into the parent metal that you can then pick out, chase out, or THEN safely use a fluted or square profile tap to take the hollow thin shell out, which by then will likely have shrunk due to being cored out, plus the heat.

this is where lefty bits come into play.. drill out with lefty's when getting close to the diamaeter of the bolt.. they usually bite and suck the threaded chunk back out.

soundguy

 

[woodlandfarms]

I was jammed up just like this once. I got so excited when the bolt started moving I forgot all the fluid behind it. Keep your oil pan close.

 

[Short Game]

If you are going to weld, go to a place like Fastenal and get a coupling nut. If you deform the end you weld, you'll still have plenty left to get a socket on.

 

[Soundguy]

tsc has them too.. but I would grind the zinc off...

 

[Short Game]

tsc has them too.. but I would grind the zinc off...

They come in bright steel too.

 

[aebsmithcreek]

more good advice all around!!! @ WoodLandFarms, very good advice, espeacialy with me bein a newbie. this is my first tractor, only had it 14 months and my first time not havin full use of it. i could easily forget and take a swim @ SoundGuy, how critical is it to drill a nearly perfectly plumb hole using that method? @ ShortGame, excellent sugestion!! i couldnt count the number of those i have used hangin pipe hangers and equipment and i hadn't even thought of that thats whats so great about forums like this one, you get the benefit of thousands of years of experiance when it is combined and for newbs like me it is invaluable. i hate to admit it but since i fell into the gig i'm workin now i rarely touch anything mechanical that isn't hvac and even then i can pretty much pick and choose what i want to tackle and with the changes that have taken place over the last 15 years since i came out of the feild it is a pretty much taken the fun out of it. almost everything i have is automated and contolled by computer,me comin up before computers or even video games am a fish out of water. this tractor is gonna change all that cause i just cant pay a dealer unless its a last resort. i wanted them to do the required maintanance just to avoid warranty questions but just oil and lube,air cleaner etc' was gonna be better than 400 bucks!! NADA!!
Thanks Fella's.

earl.

 

[Short Game]

If I can't do my own maintenance, I probably can't have it. I live on what they call "entitlements." I think they are about to decide that old vets are no longer entitled.

 

[Soundguy]

SoundGuy, how critical is it to drill a nearly perfectly plumb hole using that method? earl.

since you are trying to drill thru, and relieve pressure, the more centered and tru you drill the better, as you will keep stepping up to larger sizes. if way off center you can't step up as much as you will get into parent metal.

soundguy

 

[aebsmithcreek]

thanks to all you guys the drain plug is out.
i tried the vice grips and it was a no go, they just rode down the taper of the head so i convinced myself i couldnt make it worse and welded the rod coupler to it, about 6 or 8 sharp wacks with the hammer and a steady burst with the impact and she backed out!!! SoundGuy, you know i'm kickin myself now dont ya? from the time i made my mind up to trust my welding to the time i was smilin was probably less than 10 minutes. and the rod coupler was an excellent suggestion. the only rod couplings i could lay my hands on was zinc coated so i hit it with a file and welded from the coupling onto the drain bolt. to get it good and steady i built a platform under the sump with 4x4 and 2x4 blocks and threaded a bolt into the coupling and then backed the bolt out to put upward pressure on the coupling, this allowed me to ground directly to the coupling, that was a big help because when it was grounded to a bolt on the sump it still was a little hard to start an arc through the zinc. the John Deere dealer didnt have a drain bolt so after i get through hauling trash to the dupm this morning i'm off in search of one, i'm hoping the napa store about 20 miles up the road stocks some stuff that might interchange since they have alot of customers that use tractors in there buissiness's if not its about 30 miles in the opposite direction to the coast where one of the parts stores that caters to the marine customers may have something that will work. i still have to pull and clean the sump screen and am sure it will be plugged up tight, the hydro oil was terrible how in the world could it get so bad in a year? it is seldom stored outside but it is so milky i couldnt beleive it, it looked fine through the site glass. i had promised it to a co-worker who makes bio but it appears to have so much moisture in it that he may not be able to use it. is there anything i can do to displace the moisture in the future? it doesnt get much use through the winter, would running it at idle for 30 minutes to an hour a couple of times a month be enough to boil the moisture off?
thanks again to everyone, not only for the good advice but for the boost in confidence, i feel much more confident in the unknown than i did when i woke up yesterday morning.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

earl.