Rubble for driveway?

[RichZ]

I have a long, steep, circular dirt driveway, and was thinking of covering it with gravel, until a friend suggested "rubble". He told me its the leftovers of cut stone, and is the perfect thing for driveways and parking areas, because it packs down real well. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff, and an idea what it costs? It's got to be cheaper than gravel.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[Von]

It sounds like what we call crusher run or crushed stone. Its 0's, 1's and dust. Packs down real well and gets hard as a rock if there is alot of dust in it. It is more money than bank run gravel as there is machine cost into it. We use it as a topper on stone drives over a gravel base. About 12" of gravel compacted and 4-6" of crusher run on top. Thats how most stone driveways are done here.

 

[RobS]

Rich, even if it's more than gravel you'll be happier with it. As Von mentioned, it will pack down because of the various sizes and the dust. Gravel will just keep rolling around /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MarkV]

Rich,
We use crusher run around here also. Its about the only thing that will hold on steeper grades and with a good base under it becomes very solid. The only thing I didn't like was that the stone dust tends to track into the house when wet. We solve that by putting a thin layer of "57" stone down on top of the crusher run.

MarkV

 

[patrickg]

Uh, what's 57 run?

I was offered the dregs from readymix trucks by local redimix company. Trucks return to base with some mix still in them. They wash it out in a (dare I say it) wash out area and let it accumulate and dry. Most cement is gone, mostly gravel and sand left. It is a waste product to them and they will sell it cheap. My question is, is it any good as driveway material? If it is any good at all, should it be used first then topped with "crusher run" or what? Is it worth getting, or so poor as to waste your time and resources employing it? Wouldn't it be grand if the residual cement fines acted similarly to the dust in crusher run?

Anybody ever use it, hear the results of using it, or have an oppinion about using it?

Patrick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Something similar to "rubble" are the cinders from your local coal power plant. We used them for years. They were glad to get rid of it and it compacted very well, it was dustless so it didn't get tracked into the house. They make a good looking road too, kind of like blacktop once its compacted.

After they upgraded the furnace to a higher effecency the amount of cinders greatly decreased and the smaller size made them unusable.

Anyway just a thought.

 

[ERNIEB]

Patrick, I know the stuff your talking about, but I've never heard of it being for much of anything. In our area, heat is the biggest problem with concrete, and the trucks will try to wash out on or very near the jobsite. It then becomes the contractors problem. Some companies will have a large hole near the batching plants where trucks can wash out. I've never heard of any of them trying to salvage it.
But, I have hauled broken up concrete, from drives, slabs, and the like, to a place that is crushing it, removing the wire and rebar, and selling the product. I have never seen it used, and don't know what it's being used for.
IMO, for a driveway, your material needs some kind of binder. In these parts, the material used most is crushed limestone road base. It is either 3/4" to dust, or 1 3/4" to dust. Depending on other factors the 1 3/4" to dust is classified as #2 or commercial base, #1, state grade, or FAA. The #2 is relatively inexpensive, and is fine for driveways. This is probably what all of you are calling "crusher run" except that yours is probably made from granite.
The problem with any materrial that has a binder in it, is dust. Depending on the material you might end up with a little dust or alot. I have seen some people, who are so adverse to the dust, that they outline their driveways with railroad ties, 2X4's, or other things then fill in with loose washed gravel. To each his own.

Ernie

 

[GlueGuy]

There's some stuff the locals call "#2 recycle" here that is made from concrete that's been recovered from demolition sites and old concrete hiways. It's bascially concrete that has been run through the crusher to 1" and fines. They add some lime to it, so when it gets wet, it sets up real hard (for a gravel drive). We love it.

There are two quarries near here. One is real close, the other down the hill. The close one has relatively low-grade basalt crusher run stuff that tends to have a lot of clay in it. The quarry down the hill sells the #2 recycle and other high-quality crush. We will usually opt to pay to haul up the hill rather than deal with the basalt/clay stuff.

The GlueGuy

 

[jinman]

I have a cousin who hauls rock and one of these days (when he gets around to it) he is going to get me "spillage" from a concrete plant. Spillage is not what is left over, but what misses the concrete truck and falls on the ground. It gets sand and concrete mixed in, but of course it is inconsistent in percentages. Where I am located (19 miles from the rock crusher) any kind of limestone road base is cheap. I have a friend who lives in a county along the Red River between OK and TX and he got a load of pink granite chips for his driveway. That stuff is nice. It seems to self-bind and very little dust. He said it came out of OK. Patrickg -- Have you seen any of that stuff?

JimI

 

[patrickg]

Ernie, Thanks for the reply. Being of Irish and Scotch-Irish decent (and a bit of the native aboriginal or whatever euphemism is PC for indian these days) I tend toward the thrifty. Thought it would be cheaper way to fill holes and prepare for more expensive stuff. Actually we have a gravel pit a couple miles away, product is not so great and is too expensive. Cheaper to have it hauled in from Davis, OK down by Sulphur, OK. There are different companies there with extensive rock quarries. They are quarrying a large limestone formation, a part of the Arbuckle Mountains, I think.. We have big rigs going back and forth all day through this little burg on US hwy 177, filled north bound and empty goin' south.

I understand you want the fines included as they filter down through the gravel and mix with the soil underneath forming a sort of amalgam that is pretty solid and washout resistant, especially when covered by gravel.

Doesn't the dust wash out of the gravel with a few rains? I'd as soon have a driveway out of ball bearings as smooth gravel, about the same traction and not easy to walk on. Does the FAA designation imply the use of the product on graveled runways?

Patrick

 

[ERNIEB]

Patrick, Not only will the dust wash out of gravel, but finer particles will always travel downward. The idea of having a binder is that it will stick together, and hold the rocks in place. With road base, after it's spread, it's a good idea to wet it down real good, and compact it. You have probably seen contractors do this when building roadways.
The FAA designation indicates that the base meets Corp of Engineer specs for subgrade on runways. USAF or commercial runways are required to have FAA base beneath the asphalt or concrete.
I'm surprised that it's cheaper for you to get material from farther away. Usually it's the frieght thats the major expense. That pit close to you must be really high priced.

Ernie

 

[patrickg]

Ernie, Thanks for the info. About the closer pit. They are selling naturally made gravel I believe not crushing limestone. Their gravel is red and has a fair amount ot red dirt or clay in it, not washed to my liking. For a period, I leased my shop to a company doing QC on magnet cores for TDK. They bought some for the driveway on the east side of the shop. It is marginal, even after most of the stuff that will wash out has washed out. Can I just add the good stuff on top and let it each component find its own level or should I scrape most or all of it away and then use the good stuff?

I thought what you did, the cost should be in the digging and transportation, with transportation being the driver (Not intentional pun). But once again reality tramples on my "logical thinking".

Patrick

 

[patrickg]

Ernie, I forgot to ask how much compacting is enough compacting and how to do it. Rent vibrating compactor walk behind machine (lots of drieway, big project)? Some variant of a sheep's foot packer sized for my tractor? Gasoline vapor bomb, well maybe not, too close to standing buildings but develops a lot of compacting force over a large area for a reasonable up front investment. Drive on it with loaded pickup, 10-12000 lbs.?

Bribe county workers to do my drive way with their machines?

Patrick

 

[ERNIEB]

With the exception of the vapor bomb, any of the methods you mentioned will work. On my driveway, the majority is road base and I used a small ride on vibrating compactor. I went over it about 4 or 5 times.
I have about a 100 yd stretch where I have used different materials. Sort of experimental. I did it sections that used 5 or 6 yds. On these sections I just wet them down and went back and forth with my truck. This section is flat so not much chance of it washing away.

Ernie

 

[patrickg]

Thanks Ernie, But what you got against a guy having a little fun (vapor bomb)? Actually what I wanted to ask is how big of a compactor compacts how big of an area how fast. I know it is like asking how high is up or how long is a roll of string with an answer something like, it depends B U T is there a ball park for planning purposes or any sort of rule of thumb? Even chemical plumes from terrorist attacks have rules of thumb for estimation purposes. I don't want to rely on the tender mercies of the rental shops which sometimes tout whatever they have or makes money quickest and either end up ready to put in a four lane interstate or underequiped to make a path to the little crescent moon adorned house out back. If I can get close to the middle, I'll make out.

Patrick

 

[ERNIEB]

Patrick, short answer I really don't know. On my driveway, I did about a .5 mile stretch . At that time I had a 500 gal. tank mounted on a trailer. My brother helped me out, and would wet down an area and then I would go back and forth over it . It took us the better part of a day. But we stopped often to admire our work, I would end up waiting on him when he went to refill the tank. We went to the truck stop for lunch, and that took awhile. I had borrowed the compactor for the weekend, so I wasn't really in a hurry.
The stuff I drove over with my truck ( a tandem axle empty weight is about 10 tons) I just went back and forth until I got tired of doing it, maybe 15 or 20 times. These sections were only about 15 yards long, maybe 30 minutes?
One job I was on, they had a hole about 12 ft X 20 ft with a depth of about 3 ft. They were putting a slab on this. I brought the first load of base, and they had one guy on a skid loader picking up the base and dumping it into the hole. A second guy was spreading the base around with a shovel. A third had one of these hand operated drag aound compactors. It took me about 1 1/2 hours to go around, and when I got back with the second load, they had just about used up the first. Third load, same thing. Now I'm sure that the guy draging that thing around does it all the time. I'm also sure I would last about 15 minutes trying to do it/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
I know it's not much help, most of the jobs I go on use the small two roller, ride on type compactors.


Ernie

 

[patrickg]

Thanks, Ernie. That puts it into perspective for me, much better. Damn, it is a bigger job than I feared. I could end up with over a 1/2 mile driveway. Don't want to go the shortest route. Want to go more rectilinearly, east then south at rt angle. This will have a good long run on higher ground. Don't want to build where washout would be more likely. Hopefully the extra work will pay off in longevity and turn out to be a good investment of resources.

Patrick