run away bcs tiller problem

[farmerTom]

Hello everyone,

I picked up a used bcs 720 w/ a 20in tiller. The tines were completely worn down and wouldn't bite into the ground at all so I just installed a replacement set. Now it's actually biting into the ground but I'm having issues of it basically popping a wheel and running away on the tines instead of the wheels.

I was wondering if that was a common issue with really compacted soil or if I installed the new tillers wrong.

Thanks,
-Tom

 

[leonz]

Hello everyone,

I picked up a used bcs 720 w/ a 20in tiller. The tines were completely worn down and wouldn't bite into the ground at all so I just installed a replacement set. Now it's actually biting into the ground but I'm having issues of it basically popping a wheel and running away on the tines instead of the wheels.

I was wondering if that was a common issue with really compacted soil or if I installed the new tillers wrong.

Thanks,
-Tom

Hello Farmer Tom,

Yes sir, it does happen, wheelies are a common occurance and its also normal
with rock hard ground.

If you can wait till it rains a bit that helps or if you have a hose and
a sprinkler if the area is large as long as you have a good water supply.

The other factor is speed as you want to be at the lowest forward speed and
then overlap each pass to grind it up further as well as tilling at right angles in
the plot to break it up further.

As far as the tiller tines go the tilling edge/sharpened edge will always come
towards you as you look under the hood.

NOW the issue is digging depth and you want to be only a couple of inches in the
ground on the first passes and drop one notch at time (been there done that and
patience is the rule when breaking hard ground.

No worries Farmer Tom, it just take time. I will be filling my original TroyBilt with
windshield washer fluid to aid in traction this season anyway.

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey Tom,

Leon's right that very hard ground can cause the lighter tillers to jump more often.

Can you post a pic of your tines? Are you sure you installed them exactly the same way as the old ones? Did you buy the original tines or the rental tines? Rental tines are thicker and have a harder time penetrating the soil. I wouldn't mount rental tines.

Assuming the tines are installed properly, here's a few pointers.
1. If you haven't been getting all this rain that I've been getting, soak the ground like Leon said. Wait a day for it to dry back out.
2. Add weight. You can buy factory wheel weights, add some of your own, or buy barbell weight brackets from Earth Tools. Be warned that extra weight will make the machine harder to maneuver.
3. Never force the machine in the ground. Pushing down on the handles or trying to hold the tiller back is just asking for a jump. Jumps are just injuries waiting to happen.
4. This is the most expensive option, but the best - Buy a rotary plow. The rotary plow is a fantastic piece of equipment. I am consistently amazed at the quality of the work mine does every time I use it. It will dig full depth in one pas and is much gentler on the soil in that one pass than a rototiller is in three. It's so gentle that you'll throw earthworms live. Worms don't stand a chance with a tiller. Your 720 is a little underequipped to run it, but it will. You'll also need taller tires and at least 50 pounds of weight per tire. The taller tires, wider stance, and extra weight of the plow will make the 720 fairly difficult to maneuver. You may be able to run free wheel devices for maneuvering as the rotary plow doesn't have a lot of forward force for leaping.

 

[farmerTom]

Thanks for all the responses,

I'm pretty sure the tines are installed properly but here is a picture. It seems to lineup with the bcs tiller manual picture I found online.



I am very interested in the rotoray tiller but I think I'm going to try to tough out this season with this tiller and maybe get one next season. I'll look into adding some weights and getting bigger tires but for now I'm just going to try to take it slow and do a lot of shallow passes.

I'll make a followup reply later today to let you know how it goes.

Thanks,
-Tom

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey,

Looks to me like the tines are correctly installed.

Is the area you snapped the picture what you're trying to till? The mowed grass may be part of your issue. Loose material will build up in front of the planar wedge under the gearbox and prevent adequate penetration. I'd go and rake off the mowed grass, take another pass with the mower scalping the remainder, and rake that off. Then I'd give it a good soak and try tilling again. After a pass or two, you can rake the mowed material back on and incorporate it on the last pass.

BTW, I'm very jealous of the 12 inch tall grass you've got there. The grass *just* started greening up here. We had a pretty severe drought here last year and all the farmers are champing at the bit to see some lush pasture...

 

[hawkeye08]

I recently had the opportunity to till my daughter and son-in-law's yard. He had sprayed the grass and weeds to kill them last year or the year before. The backyard beat me up. The tiller I used is a Troy Bilt Pony. It has forward rotating tines and it would catch the sod and just throw the whole thing forward. I was sure glad when we got the whole backyard tilled, but was not looking forward to doing the front yard. The front yard was so easy compared to the back. The day after we got home from doing that, I spent time researching. What I found was forwarding rotating tines work really well for maintaining gardens, but not so much for tilling sod. I wish I had took along some weights to add, but we got it done, it just took time (and I had to be careful not to launch into someone)... Good luck. (I agree on the rotary plow, I have one that I use on the front of Gravely rider, but the daughter's yard was too small for Gravely)... If you are tilling sod under on regular basis, find a reverse (sometimes called counter rotation tines) rotating tine tiller.

 

[aczlan]

Dad has a BCS and I used to be in charge of tilling our large garden with it. IMO, that is normal when breaking hard ground. What others have suggested of adding weight, scalping the grass, then raking it off and watering helps, but (in my experience) it will be tough going until you get 2-4 passes done and get the roots all chopped up.
There is a reason why I use the 3 point tiller on our B7500 whenever I can... It holds its ground in tough tilling much better than a walk behind tiller does.

Aaron Z

 

[oldmech]

Hi! I use a long time ago a front tines tiller ARIENS . We adjust the rear long coulter in soil and we can till in very hard soil. May be add a rear coulter at the BCS tiller could help for reduce run away. I join a pict May be I make one and try. very easy to make and inexpensive. Good luck Oldmech

 

[farmerTom]

Well I really wish I knew how to weld because that rear coulter thing looks awesome. Instead I'm just making a lot of passes and slowly increasing the depth and it seems to be working. Just going to take a lot more passes then I'd like do.

 

[aczlan]

Not sure where you are located, but I bet that if you took that picture into a machine shop or fabrication shop, they could make you one easily.
Can you water the ground before tilling? That should help given how dry things look.

Aaron Z

 

[farmerTom]

I'm so worried about tilling the ground when it's to wet because the farmer I spent I year with kept saying how much you can damage the soil if you till it when it's too wet. His whole test was if the soil can be squished into a ball and doesnt easily fall apart when tapping then it's too wet to work. Maybe a little moisture wouldn't hurt tho.

-Tom

 

[aczlan]

What he is talking about is probably related to compaction and getting stuck, neither of which is a problem in your case. Your problem is that the soil is too dry and baked together to till well. Try setting up a sprinkler to hit a 2 pass width piece of ground and soak it. Once you have it broken up, then future tillings will go much easier.

Aaron Z

 

[oldballs]

Your BCS tiller looks pretty hefty to me, especially compared to the front tine 8 HP Craftsman tiller that I've used since 1973. Thus here are some other pointers besides the above on breaking new ground......

On first pass set the drag stake deep enough to hold it back..........Use low gear.........set the engine speed not too fast.........With those helfty handles, you should be able to lean down to get some easy weight applied. ..... a BCS user or the manual might give more hints. ... my.... 0.02 c Cheers, Mike

 

[farmerboybill]

Hey oldballs,

You give good advice - for running a slow RPM front-tine tiller. There is not drag stake on a rear tine tiller unless you make one as oldmech explains.

The tiller Tom is using has a tine speed of 290 RPM. The ratio of drive wheel revolutions to tine revolutions is 20 to 1 in 1st gear. On a rear tine tiller, the purpose of the drive wheels is not to propel the tractor forward, but to HOLD BACK the tiller. If Tom leans down on the handles, his tines will take over for the drive wheels and it will be like he lit a rocket on the tail of the tractor. If he wants to get more "dig" from a rear tine tiller, he needs to add weight, not down pressure.

Tom,

Aczlan has it right. Tilling in ultra-dry conditions is difficult because the ground becomes concrete. It's hard on the operator, hard on the soil, and hard on the machinery. This is true with ANY soil and any machinery. If my farm ground is too dry, I can't get my 5-16 plow I pull behind my 125 hp JD 4430 to penetrate the soil. You are right that too-wet conditions are also brutal on soil structure and I wouldn't recommend tilling then, either. A good rule of thumb on when the ground is fit is to take a handful of it and make a ball. Toss the ball from hand to hand. If the ball stays intact, your ground is too wet. If the ball breaks apart in the first couple throws, it's ready to go. If you can't dig the ball out of the ground by hand, it's too dry.

 

[farmerTom]

Thanks for all the tips,

I ended up setting up some sprinklers and ran them for an hour or so. Going to see how the ground is tomorrow and hopefully it will be able to till, I'll try the throwing the ball test.

So much to learn and so many plants to plant I just want to be done with this tilling nonsense.

-Tom

 

[Bentleg]

Hey farmerTom, good luck with your garden projects. I hope you have the flap for the rear of the tiller back on there. You might be holding back and slip under there.

 

[TomSeller]

I have had them both run forward on hard ground as well as kick the rear up and stand on it's nose after hitting a rock. Don't lean into these things unless you are looking to have some dental work done. Or maybe a nose job.

 

[billibob]

Hello everyone,

I picked up a used bcs 720 w/ a 20in tiller. The tines were completely worn down and wouldn't bite into the ground at all so I just installed a replacement set. Now it's actually biting into the ground but I'm having issues of it basically popping a wheel and running away on the tines instead of the wheels.

I was wondering if that was a common issue with really compacted soil or if I installed the new tillers wrong.

Thanks,
-Tom

I don't know what a bcs tiller is. I have a Troy Bilt rear tine FRT Tuffy tiller (their smallest tiller) and it constantly ran away on the tines. After much experimentation with weights, holding it back by hand, etc. I bolted a piece of perforated angle iron to the bottom of the depth lever that touches the ground. About a foot or so from the bolt point I bolted the angle iron to a board 8 inches wide by about 18 inches long. By standing on this board with one foot I was able to stop the runaway and let it dig in to its max depth. I then step off the board, let the tiller move forward a bit, and repeat process. When making a turn to come back the other way I tilt the tiller forward to lift the board up, and make the turn, being careful to have the board clear of the tines before engaging them again. Your tiller may be too big for this. I don't know and can't make recommendations other than to say this is how I solved my problem.