HomeBrew2
Banned
Glad to hear more of the story. So, where did all the rest of the drillers want to drill?
Running long water/power line...need suggestions
- Thread starter stumpfield
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I just glanced at your topo, but off the top of my head, your driller is probably trying to save you headaches later on. Ideally a well is located on a high spot to keep surface water from collecting around it and potentially polluting it. He will cement the top portion of the casing but you can still loose a well if there is significant runoff on it. Another issue will be your septic system.....you can't put that very far from the house so he's probably just moving the well. The final consideration is the subsurface geology...how well the site percs, groundwater flows, etc, etc.
Checkout Wellowner.org - Informing consumers about ground water and water wells
Checkout Wellowner.org - Informing consumers about ground water and water wells
OP
stumpfield
Gold Member
HomeBrew2 said:
I had a total of 4 well drillers came to look at it.
Driller #1 (this guy) pick the spot on top. Very reputable in my area. Been in business the longest (30+ years). He's a water witcher. Don't like to talk much. Very short answer to any question.... Have to get on his waiting list. 3-6 months wait. No extra charge or anything.
Driller #2 Also pick the same spot above within a few feet of driller #1. He does not believe in witching. He thinks it's bunch of crap (kind of bad mouth water witching..) He also point at a spot down below and told me he can drill there too... it's my choice. He doesn't care one way or another. This guy complaints a lot about the road. Wanted extra $3 per foot plus $1000 extra insurance for bringing his equipment there and have a tractor standby to pull him out in case he got stuck.
Driller #3 He pick a spot down below near the home site. This guy also said he doesn't believe in water witching. "I'm a scientific guy..."
. He picked the spot that I would prefered. I don't know if I gave him any hint but that's exactly where I would like to have the a well. He also emphasizes that drilling up above is a really bad idea but didn't really explain why. He can drill right away with no waiting. No extra charge either. I was going to choose this guy. Then I ran into a nearby neighbor on my way home and chat a little about getting a well drilled. The neighbor said this guy had a very bad reputation. Warn me about dealing with this driller. I took the neighbor's advice. So he's out.Driller #4. He called to cancel the appointment on his way to my property while he was at the bad spot on the road. He said there's no way he would bring this equipment there. I convinced him over the phone to keep going and the road will get better. He finally arrived. He's a water witcher but also look for geological features to find water. Did his rod thingy... found and stake a spot down below near the home site. He spent most of his time telling me how expensive his drilling equipments were. He didn't really want to walk very far. He said he doesn't really want my business. He's from the next town. He also told me I'm better off calling someone local in my town. If I really want him to drill, he will consider if I pay an extra $5 per foot. He also said whoever I choose to drill my well, this is the spot. It's has the geological features (quartz rock... and his witching rods). I should get water 200 or 300ft down. He told me about why miners don't like quartz rock because there's a lot of water. So, drill right here!
A friend's dad live in the same town also came by to help us take a look and possibly locate a spot for us. He's not an expert but is a true believer in water witching. He witched around the home site but didn't find any good spot. He walked pass all the spots sugguested by drillers#2,3 & 4 down below near the homesite. He kept looking and walking with his rods. He walked all the way up to the location of driller #1 and said that's the spot (He knew nothing about all these potential spots suggested by the well drillers. There was no stake or any marking there). He walked more than a 1/4 mile *up hill* and he's 78 years old. My wife & I were so amazed. He handed us the witching rods and let us try. Strange enough, the rods cross everytime we were on the spot. That's why we were sold on driller # 1 and still on his waiting list.
A couple of weeks ago, driller #1 came back again at my request. We did a lot of road building and grading work. The place doesn't even look the same anymore. We would like him to mark and stake the spot so he can come and drill whenever he's available. We don't neccesary have to be there. While he was there, I asked him to please take a closer look to see if it's Ok to drill down below closer to the homesite with easy access to power. He said nope. Drill up here (same spot about 1 foot or 2 from his original spot). If I really want him to drill near the home site, he would. It's up to me. He also said even if I drill at the spot he picked.... in this area, don't expect a lot of water.. You are lucky if you get 5 gal/min. He might have to go deep... 500-600ft. His drilling rig can only handle 600ft. That sounds very discouraging
.Anyway, long story.... I hope we can get our well drilled before the rain comes.
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slaveToHorses
Gold Member
As to the electrical. I would have the power company put a separate drop/panel at your well. It would be much more efficient and may be cheaper in the end.
As Eddie said, definitely put a tracer wire in with your water pipe!
As Eddie said, definitely put a tracer wire in with your water pipe!
HomeBrew2
Banned
stumpfield said:... That's sounds very discouraging
That's certainly one of the big risks of mountain property. But, there are wells 1/4 mile deep with less output than 5GPM in my area. Good luck with it ... I don't even know anybody with that kind of situation around here, so I'm no help.
slaveToHorses
Gold Member
sounds like driller #1 is the correct choice. I would go with his suggestion on the location. Too bad about the projected flow rate.
You seriously want to put in a two stage system, like I have. I have a 1700gal cistern. The well pump pumps into to the cistern. There is a separate well pump in the cistern that feeds the pressure tank and then the rest of the system.
There are are two water sensors in the cistern. The lower sensor turns on the well pump and the upper one shuts it off. I also have a thermal override switch on the well pump.
This system has three very large benefits;
1. the well pump doesn't cycle. It only comes on when the cistern gets low and runs continously until it fills. The cistern acts like a buffer. This REALLY saves wear and tear on the well pump, which is especially critical when it is deep.
2. the cistern holds enough water to stay ahead of demand so I can run more water at the same time than I could if I was running from just the well.
3. the cistern also acts as a sediment trap
We chose the 1700gal tank just because it was the largest in-ground concrete tank our well guy could get at the time. That was in 87 so there are probably a lot more choices now.
You seriously want to put in a two stage system, like I have. I have a 1700gal cistern. The well pump pumps into to the cistern. There is a separate well pump in the cistern that feeds the pressure tank and then the rest of the system.
There are are two water sensors in the cistern. The lower sensor turns on the well pump and the upper one shuts it off. I also have a thermal override switch on the well pump.
This system has three very large benefits;
1. the well pump doesn't cycle. It only comes on when the cistern gets low and runs continously until it fills. The cistern acts like a buffer. This REALLY saves wear and tear on the well pump, which is especially critical when it is deep.
2. the cistern holds enough water to stay ahead of demand so I can run more water at the same time than I could if I was running from just the well.
3. the cistern also acts as a sediment trap
We chose the 1700gal tank just because it was the largest in-ground concrete tank our well guy could get at the time. That was in 87 so there are probably a lot more choices now.
OP
stumpfield
Gold Member
slaveToHorses said:
Since my well is about 100ft above the building site. I will have a gravity feed system. I plan to install a 3000gal tank near the well. We just need to pump into the tank and let gravity do the rest. Over here, CDF requires 2500gal of standby water before they are willing to sign off on the certificate of occupancy on the house. We can only tap off at the 2500gal mark on the tank. Leaving only 500gal for me to use.
3RRL
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It's funny how them old timers like to drill on top of peaks and ridges. Mine was the same way. We got plenty of water right where he suggested. But then again, it's always a crap shoot. I wouldn't worry too much about the gals/min. He might end up going through several water carrying fractures and you may end up with more flow than you need.
Your pump will only pump so much anyway and you are having a water tank. Aside from the long water line, the good part is your gravity feed will give you over 40 psi. From my recent experience, I would say you made the right choice with the old timer. He wouldn't be in business that long if he was a failure. Looks like he's used to working under those conditions too...no whining or extra charges for BS.
Your pump will only pump so much anyway and you are having a water tank. Aside from the long water line, the good part is your gravity feed will give you over 40 psi. From my recent experience, I would say you made the right choice with the old timer. He wouldn't be in business that long if he was a failure. Looks like he's used to working under those conditions too...no whining or extra charges for BS.
HomeBrew2
Banned
Hey neighbor! Is that a Johnson Drilling rig in the pic? When did you have your well drilled? What's the depth and GPM ... I may have missed it if you posted about it previously.
Cheers!
Cheers!
If you have enough wind, which I would think you would in the mountains, I would strongly recommend a windmill. It will operate for free to fill the tank, and with a 100' elevation difference between the well site and your house you will get app 43 psi of pressure at the house from gravity alone, and a little more as your 3000 gal tank fills. Solar would be fine too, but the upfront and ongoing maintenace costs (assuming you have storage batteries) will cost a lot more then a windmill, especially long-term.
As for pipe, I wouldn't think you need anything larger then 1", unless you are planning some major water useage such as a fire sprinkler system. 2" pipe will drastically increase your pipe costs, and should it spring a major leak it will empty a 3000 gallon tank in nothing flat! Also, my #1 choice in pipe would be 1" PEX, as it will far outlast either PVC or poly. #2 I would use 160 psi black poly and #3 the pvc. Coiled pipe will be cheaper and much, much easier to install, especially over that distance. Poly pipe lasts for years, especially if you don't go cheap and install the thin 80 psi stuff.
As a plumber, I have seen PVC fail much sooner then poly, especially in areas with continuous 50-60 psi water pressure. It doesn't seem to like being under continuous pressure, especially in the larger sizes like 2", and tends to develope leaks at fittings and elbows. The smaller the diameter, the better it works under pressure, especially with Sch 40 pipe and fittings. You could solve the fitting problem by using Sch 80 fittings, but that increases your costs considerably. PEX pipe is easily expected to last 100+ years, so that would be my choice.
If you go for the electric pump, you need to know the amps it will draw to determine wire size and whether you should install step up and step down transformers. It isn't difficult to determine voltage drop based on the load, at which point you can determine exactly how much the voltage drop will cost in lost power over time, and what size wire to run. The voltage drop may not be as much as you think, given that copper wire resitances are given in resistance per 1000' of wire.
As for pipe, I wouldn't think you need anything larger then 1", unless you are planning some major water useage such as a fire sprinkler system. 2" pipe will drastically increase your pipe costs, and should it spring a major leak it will empty a 3000 gallon tank in nothing flat! Also, my #1 choice in pipe would be 1" PEX, as it will far outlast either PVC or poly. #2 I would use 160 psi black poly and #3 the pvc. Coiled pipe will be cheaper and much, much easier to install, especially over that distance. Poly pipe lasts for years, especially if you don't go cheap and install the thin 80 psi stuff.
As a plumber, I have seen PVC fail much sooner then poly, especially in areas with continuous 50-60 psi water pressure. It doesn't seem to like being under continuous pressure, especially in the larger sizes like 2", and tends to develope leaks at fittings and elbows. The smaller the diameter, the better it works under pressure, especially with Sch 40 pipe and fittings. You could solve the fitting problem by using Sch 80 fittings, but that increases your costs considerably. PEX pipe is easily expected to last 100+ years, so that would be my choice.
If you go for the electric pump, you need to know the amps it will draw to determine wire size and whether you should install step up and step down transformers. It isn't difficult to determine voltage drop based on the load, at which point you can determine exactly how much the voltage drop will cost in lost power over time, and what size wire to run. The voltage drop may not be as much as you think, given that copper wire resitances are given in resistance per 1000' of wire.