Loader S T I F F clutch pedal Jinma JM284LE

[CrashTestRanch]

The translations in the manual are very, very confusing (chinglish is the term used on this forum)

The drawings are CAD and use chinese characters for the nomenclature and data points.

The CAD drawings are exploded or 3D views which still have tangents, CL's, radii and drafting lines which are totally useless in a troubleshooting scenario.

The 2 real pictures in the manual, 1 is on the front cover and the other is a b/w pic of the console taken from what looks like the seat.

How are CAD drawings and chinglish supposed to help a customer with troubleshooting a $12,000+ tractor?

 

[irwin]

I guess you're not getting much help here... so

No experience with Chinese tractors.. but a lot of experience with clutches.

First check free play, should be an inch or so, if no free play, check adjustment..(because you aren't able to translate the manual)...you'll have to trace the clutch linkage to some kind of an adjustment.. and try to adjust.. if adjusting is no good then check linkage.
If the linkage is free (disconnect from fork, and inspect) then the issue is in the bell housing ie: the clutch, or throwout bearing, I've experienced a problem with the pressure plate springs before that sounds like your issue .. not fun, have to split tractor.

Good luck.

 

[CrashTestRanch]

First check free play, should be an inch or so, if no free play, check adjustment..(because you aren't able to translate the manual)...you'll have to trace the clutch linkage to some kind of an adjustment.. and try to adjust.. if adjusting is no good then check linkage.

If the linkage is free (disconnect from fork, and inspect) then the issue is in the bell housing ie: the clutch, or throwout bearing, I've experienced a problem with the pressure plate springs before that sounds like your issue .. not fun, have to split tractor.

Thanks Irwin, this gives us some kinda starting point. We really appreciate it.

1. First check the the clutch pedal for "free play". Should be 1" approximately. Should we be able to check this by moving the pedal with our hands?

2. Check linkage. i.e. Nuts, bolts, rubbing, bent, etc? Common sense type stuff we're guessing?

I've replaced clutches and what not in trucks and jeeps, but tractors seem like a whole different beast.

 

[irwin]

.

1. First check the the clutch pedal for "free play". Should be 1" approximately. Should we be able to check this by moving the pedal with our hands?

Yes the freeplay should be very easy to feel.

.

2. Check linkage. i.e. Nuts, bolts, rubbing, bent, etc? Common sense type stuff we're guessing?

Exactly, also if you can disconnect where it connects to the fork rod, see if it moves freely.

.

I've replaced clutches and what not in trucks and jeeps, but tractors seem like a whole different beast.

Nope, very similar, just the linkage is laid out a bit differently, and the clutch itself might be a two stage set up for the pto.

If you get into replacing the clutch.. well then, yes the job of replacing is very different. With a truck you don't have to support two separate heavy awkward pieces, but with the proper blocking and support equipment (a HD engine crane, and several jack stands) it's doable with basic mechanical ability.

 

[Rich Waugh]

OP said: "Sorry, but yes the tractor is older and hasn't seen much use. It is sheltered from the elements. My guess is ya'll would have folks seal these tractors up in cosmoline then vacuum sealed for storage? Come on, seriously?
"

Not in cosmoline, but if the machine will be sitting idle for more than a month or so it should really be kept in an enclosed garage where the humidity/temperature don't swing wildly every day. In a covered, but not enclosed, shed the thing will condense moisture when it cools at night. Then the rust begins and once begun keeps right on chewing away at things. So yes, the odds are good that rust is the issue - you obviously wouldn't have accepted delivery of it new if the clutch was that difficult at the outset.

Open the clutch inspection window on the side of the bellhousing and see what you can see. Make up a mixture of 50/50 ATF and acetone as a penetrating oil and juice the linkage, but don't juice the clutch unless you want to replace it right away. Let it sit for a couple hours and then try working things a bit at a time, adding the juice as indicated by results or lack thereof. Make sure the weep hole in the bottom of the bellhousing is open, too.

That's what I can suggest for starters. Good luck.

 

[Sweden-Art]

CrashTestRanch:


About the rusted clutch parts.
Get a large can of the spray you see in the attached picture. This is far more superior then any other penetrating oil on the market. Using this I am sure all your problems will go away.

 

[Red55]

Where can I buy that spray? I can use some!:laughing: :laughing:

 

[RonMar]

Crash Test
Do you have a front end loader on the tractor? IF so, the loader mounts are probably bolted over the clutch compartment access holes. If you have a loader, You will need to remove the loader subframe to access the holes to visually inspect the inside components.

The manual drawings can be usefull in that they show parts that you cannot see. They can be difficult in that the exploded views are often relocated at the end of a long link line. This makes it hard to piece the parts back together to figure out the correct operation. Lets use this one for a reference and I will show you some key points to look at, several of which Tommy and others have already mentioned. Many thanks to John who still hase a great deal of Jinma tractor info up on his website, including user posted maintenance and modification procedures.
http://johnstractor.homestead.com/files/DualClutch.jpg

So possible problem areas are as follows:
Part #40, the clutch pedal pivots on a rod under the left floorboard. The pivot at the bottom could be rusted, it has a grease fitting, have you greased it? It connects by linkage to part #42, the clutch arm. Both the linkage pivots could be adding drag to the system, apply oil at these points. 42 is pinned to a short shaft, part #17 that passes thru the transmission/bellhousing sidewall. That shaft where it passes thru the sidewall could be rusted. Apply some penetrating oil there. On the inside, part #17 is pinned to #19 a fork. When the pedal is pushed, #19 moves #20, the throwout bearing carrier. #20 slides on #27, a barrel/tube thru which the transmission and PTO shafts run. On 20 is part 21, the throwout bearing. When you step on the pedal, #20 carries the bearing forward to contact the 3 clutch release arms/fingers(#15) and these in turn lift/separate the clutch plates and release the clutch. IF the barrel of 27 is dry/rusted, 20 will not slide well. The barrel of #27 should have a light coat of grease on it to allow 20 to slide easilly. You may be able to reach it with some grease on a thin stick, or with a small brush attached to a stick...

With the pedal all the way up, there should be a small visible gap between the front of the throwout bearing(#21) and the ends of the 3 release arms(#15). You need to look into the access holes to observe this. This small distance is your freeplay gap. IF adjusted correctly, this small gap is taken up by the first inch or so of clutch pedal travel. You should be able to move all the parts I have mentioned so far, to make the bearing touch the clutch fingers by pushing on the clutch pedal with 2 fingers(that is all I need to take up the freeplay on mine). Even if you cannot see inside the bellhousing, If you cannot push the freeplay distance easilly with force from your hand, then the problem probably lies at one of the pivot or sliding points I have mentioned above, or a combination of all of them.

IF the freeplay distance is moved easilly with hand pressure, but is super stiff from there on using your foot, then the problem is probably in the clutch pack itself. As you can see by the drawing, it is comprised of interlocking cast iron plates and springs, that could be jammed with rust. Sadly there is not a lot that you can do for this mechanism while inside the tractor without damaging it. Oil that might free up the moving pressure plates, would surely contaminate the friction disks and the clutch would slip and fail to pass engine torque to the transmission. The tractor will have to be split to repair/replace the clutchpack.

If it is the clutchpack and not the rest of the linkage(all the rest of the linkage can be lubed), I say work the clutch as IMO, the only thing that is going to make it any better short of replacing it is to work it. You could get a large prybar(chunk of 2 X 4) and use that to cycle the pedal(do not try and drive like this) in the hope that the clutch pack will free up with movement.

As mentioned, you have probably seen morning dew on car bodies and windshields. Well tractors, lawn mowers and every other lump of metal will condense and collect moisture, both inside and out if vented.

There is an old saying that I think applies here... "If you don't use it, you loose it"...

Good luck

 

[CrashTestRanch]

Crash Test
Do you have a front end loader on the tractor? IF so, the loader mounts are probably bolted over the clutch compartment access holes. If you have a loader, You will need to remove the loader subframe to access the holes to visually inspect the inside components.

The manual drawings can be usefull in that they show parts that you cannot see. They can be difficult in that the exploded views are often relocated at the end of a long link line. This makes it hard to piece the parts back together to figure out the correct operation. Lets use this one for a reference and I will show you some key points to look at, several of which Tommy and others have already mentioned. Many thanks to John who still hase a great deal of Jinma tractor info up on his website, including user posted maintenance and modification procedures.
http://johnstractor.homestead.com/files/DualClutch.jpg

So possible problem areas are as follows:
Part #40, the clutch pedal pivots on a rod under the left floorboard. The pivot at the bottom could be rusted, it has a grease fitting, have you greased it? It connects by linkage to part #42, the clutch arm. Both the linkage pivots could be adding drag to the system, apply oil at these points. 42 is pinned to a short shaft, part #17 that passes thru the transmission/bellhousing sidewall. That shaft where it passes thru the sidewall could be rusted. Apply some penetrating oil there. On the inside, part #17 is pinned to #19 a fork. When the pedal is pushed, #19 moves #20, the throwout bearing carrier. #20 slides on #27, a barrel/tube thru which the transmission and PTO shafts run. On 20 is part 21, the throwout bearing. When you step on the pedal, #20 carries the bearing forward to contact the 3 clutch release arms/fingers(#15) and these in turn lift/separate the clutch plates and release the clutch. IF the barrel of 27 is dry/rusted, 20 will not slide well. The barrel of #27 should have a light coat of grease on it to allow 20 to slide easilly. You may be able to reach it with some grease on a thin stick, or with a small brush attached to a stick...

With the pedal all the way up, there should be a small visible gap between the front of the throwout bearing(#21) and the ends of the 3 release arms(#15). You need to look into the access holes to observe this. This small distance is your freeplay gap. IF adjusted correctly, this small gap is taken up by the first inch or so of clutch pedal travel. You should be able to move all the parts I have mentioned so far, to make the bearing touch the clutch fingers by pushing on the clutch pedal with 2 fingers(that is all I need to take up the freeplay on mine). Even if you cannot see inside the bellhousing, If you cannot push the freeplay distance easilly with force from your hand, then the problem probably lies at one of the pivot or sliding points I have mentioned above, or a combination of all of them.

IF the freeplay distance is moved easilly with hand pressure, but is super stiff from there on using your foot, then the problem is probably in the clutch pack itself. As you can see by the drawing, it is comprised of interlocking cast iron plates and springs, that could be jammed with rust. Sadly there is not a lot that you can do for this mechanism while inside the tractor without damaging it. Oil that might free up the moving pressure plates, would surely contaminate the friction disks and the clutch would slip and fail to pass engine torque to the transmission. The tractor will have to be split to repair/replace the clutchpack.

If it is the clutchpack and not the rest of the linkage(all the rest of the linkage can be lubed), I say work the clutch as IMO, the only thing that is going to make it any better short of replacing it is to work it. You could get a large prybar(chunk of 2 X 4) and use that to cycle the pedal(do not try and drive like this) in the hope that the clutch pack will free up with movement.

As mentioned, you have probably seen morning dew on car bodies and windshields. Well tractors, lawn mowers and every other lump of metal will condense and collect moisture, both inside and out if vented.

There is an old saying that I think applies here... "If you don't use it, you loose it"...

Good luck

Thanks RonMar, we have a FEL installed, plus BH and a 6' blade for it.

We did find that site and it has proved a lot more useful than the manual. Thanks for sharing the link.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[CrashTestRanch]

OP said: "Sorry, but yes the tractor is older and hasn't seen much use. It is sheltered from the elements. My guess is ya'll would have folks seal these tractors up in cosmoline then vacuum sealed for storage? Come on, seriously?
"

Not in cosmoline, but if the machine will be sitting idle for more than a month or so it should really be kept in an enclosed garage where the humidity/temperature don't swing wildly every day. In a covered, but not enclosed, shed the thing will condense moisture when it cools at night. Then the rust begins and once begun keeps right on chewing away at things. So yes, the odds are good that rust is the issue - you obviously wouldn't have accepted delivery of it new if the clutch was that difficult at the outset.

Open the clutch inspection window on the side of the bellhousing and see what you can see. Make up a mixture of 50/50 ATF and acetone as a penetrating oil and juice the linkage, but don't juice the clutch unless you want to replace it right away. Let it sit for a couple hours and then try working things a bit at a time, adding the juice as indicated by results or lack thereof. Make sure the weep hole in the bottom of the bellhousing is open, too.

That's what I can suggest for starters. Good luck.

50/50 ATF and acetone great idea thanks ...