SAE 30 or Something different

[racerboy832]

Deutz Allis 5220 with 21hp Toyosha Diesel. Book calls for straight sae 30 oil, is says to not use multi grade oils with this motor. The book is from 1989 and the tractor 1991. I just changed the oil and used straight 30. I'm in CT and it seems like that would be kinda thick. What do you guys think?

 

[Willl]

I'd stick to the book.

 

[shade tree welder]

That is very odd.

Motor oils (lubricants in general) in the past few decades have undergone many changes. Motor oils today are primarily blended from Group II and Group III basestock versus Group I just a few decades ago.

Multigrade oils are blended using lower viscosity basestocks than equivalent single grade products. The lower vis. base oil is needed to meet the cold cranking viscometrics. This specification is shown by the 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W or 20W in the SAE clasification system. They viscometrics are run at sub zero temperatures the temp varies based on the grade.

The second part of the multi-grade system the 20, 30, 40 or 50 is the viscosity at 212F (100C) or near the operating temp of an engine.

So a 10W-30 has a maximum viscosity at a very low temp and a viscosity range to meet at 100C. A straight SAE 30 grade oil has no low temp requirements to meet and has the same range as the 10W-30 at 212F.

Now the way they make the lower viscosity oil meet the high temp specification is they use a polymer thickener known as a Viscosity index improver. This large molecule shrinks as the temperature drops and the viscosity of the base oil is the determining factor in the viscosity of the bulk fluid. As the temperature of the oil increase the polymer expands and absorbs oil in to the structure increase the viscosity over what the base oil normally would.

I would recommend an oil that would have the least amount of polymer in it but still be a SAE 30 grade. So a synthetic xW-30 would be you first choice as it would likely not have any VII polymer or a 10W-30 conventional.

If you tractor is cold in the winter a single grade SAE 30 is going to have flow issues at start up and that is bad.

 

[Skyco]

20 years ago a straight weight oil was a common recommendation. Personally I'd have no problem running a current diesel spec 10w-30 or even a 5w-40.

 

[mrutkaus]

Hey Shadetree, informative post, thanks.

Mike

 

[shade tree welder]

20 years ago a straight weight oil was a common recommendation. Personally I'd have no problem running a current diesel spec 10w-30 or even a 5w-40.

Unless the manual recommends a SAE 40 grade oil, would not recommend a 40
grade oil. The base viscosity of the oil is recommended to match the
tolerances of the engine and going with higher viscosity oils over the
recommended grade will result in lower oil flow rates and possibly, lack of
lubrication related failures.

Hey Shadetree, informative post, thanks.

Mike

Thanks, 19 years working for lube companies I learned a little.

 

[racerboy832]

So would I be looking for a synthetic 10w30 or conventional?

 

[Transit]

I agree with skyco, the manual is 21 years out of date. The engine has 19 years of use, how are the hot-operating and idle pressures holding? Maybe a 10w40 or a 5w40 should be considered.

 

[racerboy832]

no oil pressure gauge, Tractor has 600Hrs on it. Would an oil pan heater help me at all. They are easy to stick on and plug in.

 

[shade tree welder]

So would I be looking for a synthetic 10w30 or conventional?

Either, the synthetic will have less VII. Look on the back of the bottle and make sure the API Donut list
Service for CI, CI plus or CJ. These are the diesel engine oil specifications.

I agree with skyco, the manual is 21 years out of date. The engine has 19 years of use, how are the hot-operating and idle pressures holding? Maybe a 10w40 or a 5w40 should be considered.

I would not recommend a 40 grade, I would be concerned with oil flow issues. Especially with the low hours on the unit.

no oil pressure gauge, Tractor has 600Hrs on it. Would an oil pan heater help me at all. They are easy to stick on and plug in.

Yes definitely. I have an engine block heater as well as a magnetic oil pan heater.

 

[DEWFPO]

I've used Amsoil ASE 10W30/SAE 30 with great success in equiopment that state a straight 30 weight.

DEWFPO

 

[shade tree welder]

I've used Amsoil ASE 10W30/SAE 30 with great success in equiopment that state a straight 30 weight.

DEWFPO

I know Amsoil does not get their products approved via the API for the
various service grades. However, do they recommend this product for
diesel engine service? If they do recommend it for diesel engines I see
no reason not to run with it.

 

[DEWFPO]

I know Amsoil does not get their products approved via the API for the
various service grades. However, do they recommend this product for
diesel engine service? If they do recommend it for diesel engines I see
no reason not to run with it.

It's rated API CG-4, CD, CF (Diesel)

DEWFPO

 

[shade tree welder]

It's rated API CG-4, CD, CF (Diesel)

DEWFPO

CG-4 was introduced in 1994. His tractor is from 1991 I see no issues
running it.

 

[RalphVa]

I'd look at an oil pan heater or change to a modern multi-grade oil. That oil is way too thick for good lubrication at startup in the winter; might take up to a minute or more for the oil pump to get suction and put oil to the valve train. I use Mobil 1 0w30 in my 4010. It's lightly diesel rated.

Our VW TDI is speced for 5w30 oil. When it goes off warranty, I plan to try to find the newer Mobil 1 ESP in 0w30. It's rated for the VW 507 spec to last 10k miles.

Ralph

 

[bp fick]

Briggs used to state a similar thing years ago. Those were the earlier days of multi-viscosity oil and the OEMs were being cautious.

I would just add my voice to the others above. I believe a modern oil is superior in almost every way, but particularly, I am big believer in quick oil flow in cold weather. Of course, I live at the 45th Parallel, so what else can I say? :laughing::laughing:

I've used the magnetic heaters. They are only OK. A true block heater seems to be more effective. FWIW

 

[Skyco]

The idea of an xxW-40 being too heavy prompted me to research it some. Turns out the centistoke range specified for different oil weights has a finite point between each SAE grade. Looking at oil analysis on new oils it seems the upper end hot viscosity can vary quite a bit in these ranges but still be a 30W or 40W. The maximum for 30 weight is 12.5 and the minimum for 40W is also 12.5
So for example one brand of 30W oil can be the exact same viscosity as another brands 40W. Both manufacturers are correct with one calling it 30W and another calling it 40W!:confused2:

Viscosity

 

[RalphVa]

He lives in Connecticut. He does not need 40w there. Think you only need 40w south of around South Carolina or in the desert SW.

My thinking is 20w (5w or 0w20) is fine for most gas engines and 30w (0w or 5w30) is fine for most diesels unless you're in very hot regions of the country. Multigrade (at least in synthetic) is MUCH better than single grade. I'm surprised that they still make single grade oils.

Ralph

 

[brucew44guns]

20 years ago a straight weight oil was a common recommendation. Personally I'd have no problem running a current diesel spec 10w-30 or even a 5w-40.

I could not agree more, makes excellent sense.

 

[DarkBlack]

Deutz Allis 5220 with 21hp Toyosha Diesel. Book calls for straight sae 30 oil, is says to not use multi grade oils with this motor. The book is from 1989 and the tractor 1991. I just changed the oil and used straight 30. I'm in CT and it seems like that would be kinda thick. What do you guys think?

That's an interesting rig. Normally Deutz is a proud German engine manufacture, but that unit looks like a Japanese Toyosha emgine in a Japanese Hinomoto tractor.