Safety switch challenges - Z445 - how to locate and fix

[PandDLong]

Somewhere my Z445 has an electrical problem. Before the mowing season, I had a "no start" problem to fix and the Forum was invaluable in helping me solve it and I learned a lot about the safety switch logic (but obviously not enough).

First, it won't start as the solenoid doesn't have a ground - a problem somewhere in the switches. If I bypass the switches entirely, it starts fine. (I also found that if a run a lead from the battery -'ve to the seat switch exit, it starts fine too).

But then, I can't do anything. If I take off the brake, it dies. As a test, I've tried the other parts linked to a safety switch (left and right hand control levers, PTO) - they all work in that as soon as I try to do anything it cuts off the motor running. It seems to behave as though no-one is in the seat, but I've tested that switch and it is fine.

My amateur sleuthing seems to point towards a bad connection "upstream" from the seat switch (I say that as bypassing the seat switch doesn't enable a start, but connect the exit of the switch to the battery ground does enable a start). But not sure.

My questions are:

1. Does the safety switch mechanism for the fuel solenoid work the same way as starting - i.e. it forms the ground?

2. Can I run a lead from the battery 've to the fuel solenoid and bypass the switches all together (I've looked at it but the wiring is not as simple as the starter solenoid and I don't want to risk wrecking it with my lack of knowledge)?

3. Anyone know the sequence of the safety switches (a detailed wiring diagram with wire colours would be ideal)?

4. Any other suggestions?

 

[MF283]

Rules on the forums prohibit info on these kind of fixes, i can't help, i'd have to take it to the dealer or call & let them walk me through it.
Good luck,
Ronnie

 

[beenthere]

Update us on the "rules of the forum" that prohibit helping here. Thanks...

 

[bumperm]

In general, safety switches will be wired in one of two ways. In a "closed loop", each safety switch must be closed for the equipment to operate, the switches are connected in series like a string of old fashioned Christmas tree lights (yeah, from many years ago) where if one bulb burned out, all the lights went out. In the closed loop, all the switches must be closed and the wiring from one to another intact, in order that they will apply either a ground or positive to the intended terminal that allows operation. Most safety and interlock systems are wired in this manner as it is more fail safe, a open switch or a broken wire will shut down the equipment.

In an open loop system, all the switches would be connected in parallel. If any switch closes, the device stops working. Note, though, that a broken or open wire, or a failed open switch would not be detected, nor would activation of that bad switch shut down the equipment. So, assuming that you indeed have a closed system, you can start by removing switches from the circuit by shorting it's terminals. But, if there is more than one bad switch or a broken wire, shorting one at a time will not locate the problem. If multiple switches are bad, you would need to short all of them or until the problem goes away. Then remove one short at a time to find the bad switches. This doesn't help if the wiring is bad.

To find and fix a bad wire, you will either need a schematic, or trace the wires out and bypass a suspected bad wire with a temporary length of wire. In practice, it is easier to use a voltmeter. If you are working with a system that opens a ground or negative, then connect one lead of the meter to positive battery and use the other lead to find out where you lose the ground in your series circuit.

The opposite applies for a system that switches positive off - connect a meter lead to chassis ground or negative battery, then use the positive lead of the meter to locate where you are losing the 12 volts.

How to tell which type you have is easy, one terminal on the solenoid valve (or whatever the cut-off is) will have a constant ground or positive (assuming switch on). Whichever polarity is constant, the opposite is being used for the safety switch circuit.

Sounds confusing, but it's not really, the hardest part is finding stuff and tracing wires. There are relatively inexpensive wire tracers out there (Fox and Hound etc) than inject a tone on a wire and allow you to locate it in a bundle of wires etc. But, a schematic is best.

 

[beenthere]

I think I see a service manual on eBay, which would help...

 

[Rock knocker]

Rules on the forums prohibit info on these kind of fixes, i can't help, i'd have to take it to the dealer or call & let them walk me through it.
Good luck,
Ronnie

Where, exactly?

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[Richard001]

Rock,

I also looked at the form rules, read closely and could not find anything that prevented a form user from offering advise to another user.

If I missed that sentence, please highlight it for me and all the other posters.

 

[MF283]

OOPS, that is another forum i'm on At least bumperm was able to offer some great info.

Ronnie

 

[Rock knocker]

OOPS, that is another forum i'm on At least bumperm was able to offer some great info.

Ronnie

I wonder if we could figure out which one:laughing:

 

[PILOON]

In some occasions rocking the peddle for the hydro can result in in a cure, reason being that a fine adjustment is slightly off.
. While attempting a start, gently rock the hydro peddle and possibly you will find the 'sweet spot'.