Jag
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- Central Arkansas
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- Kubota /L2650/ LA450/B4690 -- John Deere 450 Dozer
Thank you for such a lovely can of worms.
SAFETY WARNING: Using Loader to Lift with Chains
- Thread starter glennmac
- Start date
- Views: 47577
dmccarty
Super Star Member
There is more to the McD's coffee story than most news medias reported. While it is true that the woman burned herself after going through a McD's drivethrough and placing the coffee cup between her knees. She spilled the coffee and burned herself getting 1st and 2nd degree burns.
That is not a little itty bitty injury especially when it is in your lap and thighs. 2nd degree burns are serious.
WHY was the coffee hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns in the first place? If the coffee is hot enough to cause these kinds of injuries it certainly is not drinkable.
Oooppppss... That is the reason the coffee is so hot. McD's had and may still have a policy on free coffee refills. If the coffee is to hot to drink quickly then customers are not going to get another cup on Ronald.
McD's had numerous complaints and lawsuits about serving coffee at temperatures near boiling. McD's had ignored the complaints and continued to serve the coffee at scalding temperatures to cut down on the amount of money they would loose if they actually lived up to there adverts of free refills.
McD's got sued and they lost big time. I remember in the early 90s eating breakfast at McD's and burning my lips and tongue because the coffee was scalding hot. I had to ask for a cup of ice to make the coffee drinkable. By the time the coffee cooled off my food was gone. MY coffee maker does NOT make coffee that hot.... Thankfully.
McDs made deliberate decision to save money by keeping their coffee scalding hot to avoid free refills.
Hope this was interesting....
Dan McCarty
That is not a little itty bitty injury especially when it is in your lap and thighs. 2nd degree burns are serious.
WHY was the coffee hot enough to cause 2nd degree burns in the first place? If the coffee is hot enough to cause these kinds of injuries it certainly is not drinkable.
Oooppppss... That is the reason the coffee is so hot. McD's had and may still have a policy on free coffee refills. If the coffee is to hot to drink quickly then customers are not going to get another cup on Ronald.
McD's had numerous complaints and lawsuits about serving coffee at temperatures near boiling. McD's had ignored the complaints and continued to serve the coffee at scalding temperatures to cut down on the amount of money they would loose if they actually lived up to there adverts of free refills.
McD's got sued and they lost big time. I remember in the early 90s eating breakfast at McD's and burning my lips and tongue because the coffee was scalding hot. I had to ask for a cup of ice to make the coffee drinkable. By the time the coffee cooled off my food was gone. MY coffee maker does NOT make coffee that hot.... Thankfully.
McDs made deliberate decision to save money by keeping their coffee scalding hot to avoid free refills.
Hope this was interesting....
Dan McCarty
MChalkley
Elite Member
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- EarthForce EF-5 mini-TLB (2001)
Ah, now this thread has finally migrated to a subject I consider important - coffee! In order to brew truly good coffee, a coffee maker has to deliver water to the grounds at around 190 degrees. I actually measure mine when I get a new coffee maker, and if it doesn't get that hot, I return it. If two samples don't get it right, I look for another brand. I don't know how not a liquid has to be to cause 2nd degree burns, but I suspect 190 degrees would do it.
Of course, the obvious retort to all this "more than you ever wanted to know about coffee" soliloquy is: Ok, so the water has to be 190 degrees to make good coffee - what does that have to do with McDonalds?" Alas, I cannot offer a response to that one. Except to say, that some restauranteurs I've heard express themselves on the subject hold to the theory that if it's hot enough, it doesn't matter how bad it tastes. Perhaps that's McDonald's' logic.
At any rate, my take on the McDonald's coffee suit is this: I don't care what the temperature of the coffee was; if the lady was dumb enough to think it was cool enough to not hurt if it spilled on her, she should be taken away and locked up: she is a menace and will sooner or later kill herself and/or somebody else. If she put the stuff between her legs knowing it was hot enough to burn her, well, that's nature's way of weeding out the stupid. As likely as any other scenario: She's not stupid, but just wasn't thinking. And for not thinking, she gets rewarded. Most of us have to pay for our mistakes ourselves and she should have, too. I agree that a 2nd degree burn in the groin area is serious. Amazingly, I've never had to have one to appreciate that fact, and I think pretty much everybody I know is in the same category. Maybe it just so happens that, by some queer accident, I and everybody I know personally is a genius. Lucky me. But it's strange that there are no other indications of this aberration of fate.
MarkC
Of course, the obvious retort to all this "more than you ever wanted to know about coffee" soliloquy is: Ok, so the water has to be 190 degrees to make good coffee - what does that have to do with McDonalds?" Alas, I cannot offer a response to that one. Except to say, that some restauranteurs I've heard express themselves on the subject hold to the theory that if it's hot enough, it doesn't matter how bad it tastes. Perhaps that's McDonald's' logic.
At any rate, my take on the McDonald's coffee suit is this: I don't care what the temperature of the coffee was; if the lady was dumb enough to think it was cool enough to not hurt if it spilled on her, she should be taken away and locked up: she is a menace and will sooner or later kill herself and/or somebody else. If she put the stuff between her legs knowing it was hot enough to burn her, well, that's nature's way of weeding out the stupid. As likely as any other scenario: She's not stupid, but just wasn't thinking. And for not thinking, she gets rewarded. Most of us have to pay for our mistakes ourselves and she should have, too. I agree that a 2nd degree burn in the groin area is serious. Amazingly, I've never had to have one to appreciate that fact, and I think pretty much everybody I know is in the same category. Maybe it just so happens that, by some queer accident, I and everybody I know personally is a genius. Lucky me. But it's strange that there are no other indications of this aberration of fate.
MarkC
EddieW
Silver Member
Dan, the lady's lawyer produced a list of over 800 similar incidents where McD had settled out of court AND continued to serve the coffee hot. I have been told that it is about 150 degrees, no substantiation, though. I can tell you that I bought a cup of coffee in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee while on vacation and I was in Knoxville before it was cool enough to drink. I think that is about a 20-30 minute drive. I told my wife anybody stupid enough to make coffee that hot wasn't going to get my business. I haven't been in one of their places since. It was about a month later I heard about the suit.
jgh
Gold Member
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10/9
[one reply b4 I sleeeeep...]
Now here comes the restaurant owner of almost 15 yrs to give you a perfesshonal viewpoint:
If you don't serve the coffee hot, you will get complaints.
180 seems kinda a high, but when I microwave my leftovers, I do it to about 170 (using a probe) and it cools really quickly, so....go figure.
On the other hand, too hot oxidizes rapidly if you are in a slow part of the day, say mid Sunday afternoon for us, and oxidized coffee is not fit to drink for most of us.
Personally I cannot believe a company like Mickey-D would make a group-considered (and most corporate ones are) decision to quench refills with too-hot coffee. Whatever you may think, most of McD decisionmaking is driven by quality as the best way to suit the customer. Their franchisees would have to have been on board on that little conspiracy, too.
My late dad for one was only satisfied with the lipflasher special, hotter n hell. He sent back a lot of coffee, much more that the # of steaks.
Can of worms, pot of coffee, take your choice.
If I stay up any later, coffee won't be strong enuf to keep me in the tractor seat tomorrow, make that today.
J
[one reply b4 I sleeeeep...]
Now here comes the restaurant owner of almost 15 yrs to give you a perfesshonal viewpoint:
If you don't serve the coffee hot, you will get complaints.
180 seems kinda a high, but when I microwave my leftovers, I do it to about 170 (using a probe) and it cools really quickly, so....go figure.
On the other hand, too hot oxidizes rapidly if you are in a slow part of the day, say mid Sunday afternoon for us, and oxidized coffee is not fit to drink for most of us.
Personally I cannot believe a company like Mickey-D would make a group-considered (and most corporate ones are) decision to quench refills with too-hot coffee. Whatever you may think, most of McD decisionmaking is driven by quality as the best way to suit the customer. Their franchisees would have to have been on board on that little conspiracy, too.
My late dad for one was only satisfied with the lipflasher special, hotter n hell. He sent back a lot of coffee, much more that the # of steaks.
Can of worms, pot of coffee, take your choice.
If I stay up any later, coffee won't be strong enuf to keep me in the tractor seat tomorrow, make that today.
J
Bird
Rest in Peace
Aaah, the different preferences. I drink coffee from the time I get out of bed until afternoon usually; prefer it pretty hot; never thought about checking to see what the temperature was, but the Mr. Coffee seems to make it about right. On the other hand, my wife drinks coffee from the time she gets up until she goes back to bed, and if it's fresh and hot, she puts an ice cube in it because she only wants it luke warm. But I can well imagine restaurants getting complaints if it isn't hot enough.
Bird
Bird
bsauter
Silver Member
I've been away for a few days. My chain that snapped was an old one that the farmer across the street gave me a few years ago when he was moving some tree trucks on my property with his Case FEL. I do not know what it was rated for or how it it was. It was 25 ft. Nice and long and handy. It probably was damaged over the years (several times). It was all I had to move stuff with.
I NOW have two 3/8 14 ft chains and they are HEAVY duty. I also will be much more careful. Dare I say, smart?
Just this weekend I did use one chain and my FEL to unload a new 72 inch finish deck in a crate off my flatbed. Went very slow and carefully and made my son stand far, far away while he watched. The 3010 handled it very well. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978
I NOW have two 3/8 14 ft chains and they are HEAVY duty. I also will be much more careful. Dare I say, smart?
Just this weekend I did use one chain and my FEL to unload a new 72 inch finish deck in a crate off my flatbed. Went very slow and carefully and made my son stand far, far away while he watched. The 3010 handled it very well. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.
Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978
This has proved to be a very hot topic--more than 190 degrees. It already has become the most replied-to thread in the Attachments forum ... surpassing ... guess what ... Hooks on Buckets. You guys really love, and get excited about, chains and hooks.
I attribute this topic's heat, if not all its light, to two words: "never" (in the Kubota safety cautions and labels} and "lawyer" (in the warm affection with which you all have uttered it).
I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the McDonalds coffee lawsuit. Those of you who don't like the result in that case think that the lady should have borne the loss (due to her stupidity), and you also are perhaps peeved at the legal system and its lawyers for allowing her to recover damages.
But the relevant issue is this: if McDonalds subsequently put a label on its coffee cups reading, "Scalding Hot! Never Hold this Cup Between Your Legs While Driving," do we think that is a sensible warning and should the warning be heeded. Of course so. Even those of you who hate the result of the suit admit that the conduct was stupid and doomed to result in injury.
So, forget Kubota's motivations and the legal system. The issue for tractor operation is simply this: Is Kubota's chain lifting warning sensible and should it be heeded. A legitimate answer is no.
That and a few nickels will get you a cup of coffe. (In Mark C's case, it will take terra-nickels for his cup, and it better be 190 degrees.)
Glenn
I attribute this topic's heat, if not all its light, to two words: "never" (in the Kubota safety cautions and labels} and "lawyer" (in the warm affection with which you all have uttered it).
I'm not sure I understand the relevance of the McDonalds coffee lawsuit. Those of you who don't like the result in that case think that the lady should have borne the loss (due to her stupidity), and you also are perhaps peeved at the legal system and its lawyers for allowing her to recover damages.
But the relevant issue is this: if McDonalds subsequently put a label on its coffee cups reading, "Scalding Hot! Never Hold this Cup Between Your Legs While Driving," do we think that is a sensible warning and should the warning be heeded. Of course so. Even those of you who hate the result of the suit admit that the conduct was stupid and doomed to result in injury.
So, forget Kubota's motivations and the legal system. The issue for tractor operation is simply this: Is Kubota's chain lifting warning sensible and should it be heeded. A legitimate answer is no.
That and a few nickels will get you a cup of coffe. (In Mark C's case, it will take terra-nickels for his cup, and it better be 190 degrees.)
Glenn
Bird
Rest in Peace
Glenn, I think what made the McDonald's coffee lawsuit so newsworthy was not the fact that the lady won the lawsuit, but the ridiculous amount of the initial award.
Bird
Bird
dmccarty
Super Star Member
I made a remark to a remark that brought up the Mc'Ds lawsuit. I see references to the lawsuit all the time but you never see the whole story behind it. I think I saw three references to the Hot Coffee Lawsuit last week. So I just HAD to respond to the mention of the Lawsuit in TractorByte! 
The Wall Street Journal had a long article about the McD's lawsuit a year or so ago. It was the first media outlet the got past the "She put the hot coffee between her legs, burned herself so she sued." spin. They went into great detail about Mc'D's refill policy, complaints, and other lawsuits. The reason she won so much money was not due to her injury but to McD's insistance on keeping their coffee HOT. We are not talkng 150 or 170 degrees but over 200. The jury awarded the large sum of money to punish McD's since they were purposively keeping the coffee over 200 degrees to lower their refill expenses. I think the award was based on the amount of money that McD's had saved by not having to refill coffee multiplied times some number. Put it another way, the jury awarded her a great deal of money because Mc'D had made a good deal of money by selling HOT coffee that could not be quickly consumed.
I think there are pleny of bogus lawsuits out there that are better examples of a legal system gone wrong. I think this one was a correct lawsuit. How about the psychic in Miami that go her head Xrayed/MRI'ed, lost her powers, so she sued. Or the other psychic that went sking, had an accident that caused a head injury, that in turn caused him/her to loose their psychic abilities. THOSE are frivolous cases!
Dan WhoMustHaveHisCoffeeEveryDayButNotAt200Degrees! McCarty
The Wall Street Journal had a long article about the McD's lawsuit a year or so ago. It was the first media outlet the got past the "She put the hot coffee between her legs, burned herself so she sued." spin. They went into great detail about Mc'D's refill policy, complaints, and other lawsuits. The reason she won so much money was not due to her injury but to McD's insistance on keeping their coffee HOT. We are not talkng 150 or 170 degrees but over 200. The jury awarded the large sum of money to punish McD's since they were purposively keeping the coffee over 200 degrees to lower their refill expenses. I think the award was based on the amount of money that McD's had saved by not having to refill coffee multiplied times some number. Put it another way, the jury awarded her a great deal of money because Mc'D had made a good deal of money by selling HOT coffee that could not be quickly consumed.
I think there are pleny of bogus lawsuits out there that are better examples of a legal system gone wrong. I think this one was a correct lawsuit. How about the psychic in Miami that go her head Xrayed/MRI'ed, lost her powers, so she sued. Or the other psychic that went sking, had an accident that caused a head injury, that in turn caused him/her to loose their psychic abilities. THOSE are frivolous cases!
Dan WhoMustHaveHisCoffeeEveryDayButNotAt200Degrees! McCarty
