Saving / repairing pole barn posts

[joshuabardwell]

I noticed tonight that some of the posts on my pole barn are starting to rot at ground level. To say there are runoff issues would be putting it mildly: the barn is on a gravel pad, and when it rains heavily, there is standing water in some places. I recently had two 6x6 fence posts rot out underground and basically just fall over, leaving only crumbles in the hole, so I imagine that's what will happen to my barn posts, if it hasn't already. What's the right response? I'm sure the first answer is to fix the runoff issue, but I wouldn't even really know where to begin. There's a big hill that runs off to the level spot where the barn is, and then continues on down from there, so there's just a lot of water that is dumped into that area.

If the post does rot out at and below ground level, is there a way to repair it without having to rebuild the whole barn around it? As I was rolling the idea around in my head, I kind of imagined shoring up the barn, cutting out the post, and putting in a concrete pier or something, before replacing the post.

 

[wngsprd]

I built a 10 by 24 pole barn many years ago for milking goats and storing hay. My Kubota lives in it now. I cut red cedar trees on my property for poles and now have one in a similar situation as you. I haven't put much into planning yet, but my first thought was to sink another pole next to the one going bad (which is a corner post) and connect them. So I'm interested in the replies you receive on your question, too.

 

[riptides]

Interesting problem. I have some buildings built with cedar posts. I recently took one down and popped the post out of the ground. Over the decades it had rotted, but at a very even pace around the edges. The core was still "good". If I had looked at it, just from the ground view, I would have been tempted to replace it, if I had saved the building.

In your case, I assume, these posts are just regular pressure treated wood.

I'd gully around the perimeter, and lay some drain tile to move some of the water away.

I'd dig holes next to the existing posts and brace them with more pressure treated wood, and also drop some concrete around them.

 

[Paddy]

Depending on your access, I would go with the concrete pier. No fun I'm sure. If you do two or three at a time, it won't take much bracing. Or galvanized plates bolted down deep.

I saw a presentation on inspecting power poles. The rot line is where the oxygen is, not down deep. from what I recall, 18 to 24". The entire city of Venice Italy is built on wood piers. They are so deep they don't rot. Same with the Brooklyn bridge if you can imagine. They built wood caissons that they sank under the load of stone.

 

[jeffinsgf]

It's not fun. I've been on a crew doing it. Shore up the pole with braces on each side. We used hydraulic jacks, too. Cut the pole off, dig out underneath, install a Sonotube, pour concrete, allow to cure, release jacks, let the pole settle onto the pier, and bolt it down. We used steel plates that screwed to the pier and then to the pole. Depending on the amount of shoring up you can do at once, it's best to take this job slow...like just a couple poles at a time.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Depending on your budget, you could go with Permacolumns. Those would allow you to do one at a time where as with concrete, you would realistically have to have enough for a delivery or have a small mixer on site. If the barn has metal siding, removing a panel or two might help provide better access. You need to make sure you have all the rot cut off. You might have to add short length of post to get back to ground level and fishplate the post to make it sturdy. Like jeffinsgf said, it's not fun.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Like jeffinsgf said, it's not fun.

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I know that whatever the solution will be, it won't be fun, but I think that a repair is in my future, and whatever it is, it's got to be easier than rebuilding the barn--right?!

 

[jeffinsgf]

Just going to add this...

We poured the piers about 18" above grade, so that the poles were no longer in soil or water contact.

You're right, whatever you do, it will be less expensive and time consuming than rebuilding the barn!

 

[Danno1]

I saw a presentation on inspecting power poles. The rot line is where the oxygen is, not down deep. from what I recall, 18 to 24". The entire city of Venice Italy is built on wood piers. They are so deep they don't rot. Same with the Brooklyn bridge if you can imagine. They built wood caissons that they sank under the load of stone.

I've always heard it's the first 12 inches of soil that's biologically active.

The Tappan Zee Bridge is built on wood pilings too.


.

 

[riptides]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I know that whatever the solution will be, it won't be fun, but I think that a repair is in my future, and whatever it is, it's got to be easier than rebuilding the barn--right?!

Well...

How big is the barn, how old is the barn, how are other parts holding up?

I JUST went through this with two outbuildings a week or so ago. I took a kubota against them.