Sawmill for sale, how much is it worth?

[RaydaKub]

The guys (and a few gals) that make up TBN are an amazing group, so I come to you for your input once again.

When I was a kid, I had a neighbor who was above and beyond when it comes to building stuff. He was a farmer and could fix anything. He had a shop to work on equipment or on wood. A few years before he retired, he bought a sawmill. He used it to cut logs down into lumber and used that lumber to build new kitchen cabinets (among other things). He is still with us, though a couple strokes and age have put him in the nursing home to live out his days.

I recently contacted his daughter to ask what happened to the sawmill and found that it is still on the farm. There has been talk of selling it, but nobody knows what it could be worth. So this thread has 2 purposes. 1) To ask your opinions on what would be a fair price and 2) there is a good chance a possible sale won't happen and I want to throw it open to the group here for sale. She would like to see someone get it who would use it rather than let it sit unused forever.

Let me state up front that it hasn't been started in a number of years. It runs on a 4 or maybe 6 cylinder engine. The whole mill is housed in a 3-walled cattle shed, so it exposed to some weather, but does not receive direct rain on it. The sled runs on a cable winch system. Logs are advanced across the sled manually by using a ratchet system. There are vertical spikes to hold the log in place. The sled is about 38 feet long and 4 feet wide. The engine and gearing take up about another 8x8 feet. The wood beams appear to still be solid enough. The saw blade is 43 inches across. I don't think the flight elevator (used for sawdust removal) was part of the original setup, but it would probably be thrown in the deal as there's no other use for it there. It is located in western Minnesota, straight west of Mpls, but almost into South Dakota.

Make no mistake, this would be a project just to move, and maybe another project to get it running again, but to the right ambitious do-it-yourselfer, could be just what the doctor ordered.

Here's a series of pics. Let's hear what you have to say, gentlemen.

 

[kevinwak]

My dad and uncles have a lumber company, and while they are slowing down now they used to cut up to and over a million board feet a summer. The basic bones and concept of their sawmill is the same. That sawmill can probably be run as is, or heavily modified as desired to make the work easier.
It looks pretty cool and brings back many memories of childhood. It definitely should work with a little tlc, such as a good greasing, oil change, maybe new drive belts. Before you take anything apart take plenty of pictures to know how it goes back together. That friction drive for spinning the drum that pulls the carriage back and forth is farely simple in concept but I could see it being difficult to reassemble correct if it was taken apart.
Price. Not sure. Between 2-10 thousand. That blade alone is over a thousand in good condition. Does it have carbide bits or HSS?

 

[KYErik]

About 8 yrs ago, my dad bought an old (100+ yrs old) Frick 48" circle mill for $5K. No engine. It needed a lot of work on the saw frame and a new rolling "sled" but works well driven via PTO by a 80hp tractor.

If the engine runs, the blade is still true- and the main shaft bearings are OK- I'd guess $5-10K.

 

[Stimw]

If you go to- forestryforum.com
There are sawyers from around the world most from the US and they would know the approximate value.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I'd get a new band saw one instead,

 

[Tractor Seabee]

Maybe donate as a museum piece. Some museums restore and operate for public enhancement. There are several here in the PNW and pretty exciting to watch them operate. Some have steam engines; the original power source for those old mills. They use the waste wood to fuel the boiler.

Ron

 

[RaydaKub]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.
To answer questions:
1) I don't know if the blades are carbide tipped. I believe they are true. No idea about bearings, but assume they were good when last used or he would have fixed them.
2) forestryforum.com -- good suggestion, we'll see if anything turns up there
3) get a bandsaw -- not helpful, but appreciate your honesty. :thumbsup:
4) donate to museum -- It actually was donated at one time, but the small historical society he donated to decided to pass and signed a release giving it back, though it never moved.

Anybody else?

 

[TnAndy]

Probably not carbide teeth....HSS insert type. Special tool will roll them out of the blade for replacement. They also tend to come free on their own from time to time.....most old saw shed have a row of holes in the roof metal aligned with the blade, often looks like someone shot the roof with a machine gun !

The blade itself loses temper over time, or if run to hot, and has to be 'hammered' to restore temper. That is becoming a lost art.

The kerf loss on these old blades is significant, often 3/8" compared to less than a 1/16" on many band mills....lot of lumber lost to sawdust.

Horsepower required is significant also.....often 5 times more than band mills. These mills were state of the art in the early to mid 20th century.....but band mills have pretty much replaced them for the above reasons. (and several more)

Considering a good, used band mill, such as my Woodmizer LT40, can be bought for 7-8k, ready to run, I can't imagine an old circle mill like this being worth more than a grand or so, and given all the downsides to running one, I can't see why anyone would spend the money to get it running again, unless you simply like old time sawing.

 

[kevinwak]

Probably not carbide teeth....HSS insert type. Special tool will roll them out of the blade for replacement. They also tend to come free on their own from time to time.....most old saw shed have a row of holes in the roof metal aligned with the blade, often looks like someone shot the roof with a machine gun !

The blade itself loses temper over time, or if run to hot, and has to be 'hammered' to restore temper. That is becoming a lost art.

The kerf loss on these old blades is significant, often 3/8" compared to less than a 1/16" on many band mills....lot of lumber lost to sawdust.

Horsepower required is significant also.....often 5 times more than band mills. These mills were state of the art in the early to mid 20th century.....but band mills have pretty much replaced them for the above reasons. (and several more)

Considering a good, used band mill, such as my Woodmizer LT40, can be bought for 7-8k, ready to run, I can't imagine an old circle mill like this being worth more than a grand or so, and given all the downsides to running one, I can't see why anyone would spend the money to get it running again, unless you simply like old time sawing.

The inserts are available in either carbide or high speed steel. When I zoomed in on the pick they actually kind of looked like carbide, but it wasn't clear enough, that's why I asked.

You are right, it is becoming very difficult to find a place to hammer saws. The nearest place to me is almost a three hour drive away.

The circular mill would have the advantage of volume If and when it is tuned back up to running condition. It would definitely outcut a woodmizer, but for the everyday home owner the maintenance just wouldn't be worth it.

 

[KYErik]

I agree that the circle mill could out produce a bandmill. It is my opinion that the circle mill would involve LESS cost of maintenance. I have a small bandmill and have cut a fair amount of white oak. A few years after I built the bandmill, Dad bought the old circle mill and restored it. Dad and I have cut lots of red, white and post oak on the circle mill. Maybe I was doing something wrong, but it seems like the bandmill could only do 4-5 medium sized (18") oak logs and then cuts would start to get wavy and so the band needed to be sent off to be sharpened. The circle mill can do at least 10-15 medium sized oak logs before the tips just need to be dressed with a special electric grinder. The only reason we noticed that it needed sharpening is because the tractor engine seemed to be working harder. It did take awhile to get the mill dialed in, but after its set right- it has been very reliable at producing straight boards. This circle mill is powered by an 80HP tractor- so there is no extra engine to maintain.

If you need to build a barn/shed and have a fair amount of trees of your own, then even at $5K, that circle mill could be a real bargain. My dad and I built this 72' by 38' pole shed out of oak cut on the circle mill (mostly red oak- some white and post). All the posts, stringers and lumber to construct the trusses was sawn on the circle mill. I'm not sure how many thousands would have paid if I would have bought the lumber- even if it was pine/spruce at the lumber yard. Making trusses isn't hard.

In general, sawing is very time consuming, potentially dangerous and back breaking work- but very rewarding to build your own shed out of trees that came off of your own property.