Scag blade tip speeds

[cherymax]

I'm in the market for a ztr mower... I talked to the JD and Scag guys today and was told by the JD guy that the ztr's mow much faster becasue they have a higher blade tip speed.

I currently mow with a JD 455/60" takes about 2 hours to 2.5 acres. I'd like to get it down to an hr and mow yards on the side.

I found out the JD ztr's blade tip speed hover around 16,500 till you get up to the 997's. Anywho for comparison sakes can anyone tell me the blade tip speed of my JD 455 w/ 60" deck and what do the Scag ztr's run at?

 

[jcmseven]

I have a catalog that quotes the blade tip speed for your current mower at 15,124 fpm. The typical ZTR, including Scag, run at about 17,000 fpm. I do not know that John Deere is the fastest, but I doubt it. I have read somewhere that the new Toro mowers have a blade speed of about 18000 fpm, if not a little more. BTS is very important to cut quality, but there are other important things, too. Deck vacuum, blade sharpness and content, and overlap are all comparable in importance to blade tip speed. As long as your tip speed is not too slow, say 14,000 or so, you would be OK with any brand. John Deere has the advantage of the 7 Iron deck, which due to its depth and vacuum, would perform as if the blade speed were a bit higher. As far as speed, I found my Gravely 60" ZTR to be faster, but not that much faster than my 595 JD 62" in most cases. If you like green and you like a tractor, I would consider an X series along with the ZTR's. I believe they cut a bit faster than your current 455, and would give you a lot more versatility. Interestingly, even the commercial guys here will usually have an X on the trailer, even if they have a 737 or 757 as their primary mower (speaking about John Deere).

John M

 

[Dargo]

The literature I got with my Grasshopper front mount ZTR mower listed Blade Tip Speed at 19,000.

 

[cherymax]

John you're right about me favoring green, but I like to (attempt) to be unbiased in my decision. I see just about every commercial yard mowing business in my area using Scags. In all honesty I wanna go green, but I want to know why no one in the commercial business in using green?

I've done a lot of reading in different forums about the scag being "extra heavy duty", but similar JD's seem to be heavier:

JD757/54" (1,280lbs) vs Scag Wildcat/52" (1055lbs)

JD737/54" (1280lbs) vs Scag Tigercub/52" (980lbs)

JD717A/48" (1,132) vs Scag Tigercub/48" (975lbs)

I already have a 4110, so that kinda takes care of my tractor needs. I plan on getting into the commercial lawn mowing business also... that's kinda the reason (excuse) for me gitting the ztr.

I'm gonna go look at Grasshoppers here in about an hr... 19k... **** that's fast.

 

[bczoom]

As John noted, there are several factors that make a ZTR faster.

Actually, mine is also 19000 fpm and I thought many/most commercial ZTR's run in that range. I just Scag's web site and didn't see any tip speeds mentioned.

I'd say the biggest factors that make ZTR's that much faster than tractors are their travel speed (approx. 10 mph) and turning capability. I switched from a garden tractor with a 48" deck to a ZTR with 52" deck (pretty much the same size deck) but it cut my mowing time from 2 hours to 45 minutes.

Brian

 

[cherymax]

bczoom what type of ztr do you have?

 

[bczoom]

Country Clipper Charger. ( www.countryclipper.com )
There's been a few reviews on it lately if you want to do a search here. Sigarms and one or 2 others have recently purchased one.

 

[Sigarms]

Per Brian, I did buy one.

I LOVE IT!

Got a great deal, but...I could of gotten a 27 hp kohler, 60" deck for only $6600.

Joystick is vantastick.

Country clipper and my dealer even got me another set of blades at no charge.

Country Clipper also sent me my extended 4 year wrty via my dealer (they DID follow up on the "paperwork").

Hate to say it, but going "full tilt" and "clipped" a tree with the corner of the deck /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif not a "scratch" on the deck at all.

Seems "bomb proof".

Deck also flips up, very easy access.

OK, maybe a ZD28 wouldn't be too bad, but for what I spent, no regrets WHATSOEVER. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sigarms]

One more with the deck raised.

 

[rickhess]

I too recently bought a Country Clipper Charger. I love the tilt deck because I can clean the deck and sharpen the blades so easily. I also love the joystick controls and the articulating front wheels and deck.

 

[cherymax]

How important is the pivoting front axle?

 

[colby]

Depends on your ground condition I have a 60"
country clipper charger before it I had a 52" jazze 2
I mow 8 acres every week and the ground I mow is
uneven and several small ditches and the pivoting
deck mows even wherethe Jazee 2 would bring one of the front tires off the ground and leave high spots at different places.

 

[milkman]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( OK, maybe a ZD28 wouldn't be too bad, but for what I spent, no regrets WHATSOEVER. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

Definitely with the shaft drive deck, now if they just had the joystick, that would be cool.
I was at a display for Scag and Hustler and the guy said that the ZD wasn't in the same category as his mowers since it wasn't a commercial mower, maybe high end homeowner mower, and he really preferred the Hustler because it has the wheels on the back that prevents gouging when you climb over a sidewalk. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Sigarms]

Yes, if the ZD had a joystick, I might of even of paid the extra 6/7k (might of).

I can't help but wonder why more manufacturers don't have the joystick as an option.

Even my neighbor, who let me used his ZTR until I got one myself loved the joystick control when I let him try my "new one" (and he even admitted to me that when I told him what I was getting that he thought it would be a waste of money).

I think when he could mow, smoke a fag and drink a "cold one" all while he was mowing, sold him on it (the country clipper) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Dargo]

I have well over 1000 hours of seat time on a ZTR mower, and I must be odd. I've tried several of the single joystick controlled units, but I still strongly prefer the twin lever controls. I see where Countryclipper has the twin levers available on their larger units.

I guess it all depends on what you get used to, but after even several hours on a joystick model, I cannot run down a vinyl fence line and be secure at a 1" margin with the joystick. With the twin sticks, I can easily maintain plenty of control on my units with even less than a 1" margin. Maybe they've changed in the last year or two. I've not been on a two handle controlled unit that I cannot run with one hand anyway. Oh well, I'm sure that some people don't worry about mowing that close to stuff anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Sigarms]

I did talk to Country Clipper directly and asked them why the joystick wasn't as popular as the twinstick.

They told me (for what its worth) that the single joystick was more popular among the "newcomers" to the ZTR market, and that the "old pros" who had alot of seat time with the twinstick "just didn't like" that single joystick (reason why the do offer a twinstick, market is there).

My father was the primary reason for the mower. Trying to get him to move in with me and he loves riding his old wheel horse up in Pa. He tried my neighbors ZTR twinstick, and it just plain wore him out with his shoulders after a short time (he's pushing mid 70's). He can ride the Country Clipper all day and actually enjoy it (although some of the terrain is "rough" and he can get a "little sore" the next day).

I might add, he had never been on a ZTR before, and the "learning curve" was much quicker on the Country Clipper with the joystick. compared to the twinstick.

As far as "control" of the machine, I think the "build" of the and experience with the machine plays a major factor.

Honestly, I don't mind the twinstick at all (gives my left hand somthing to do /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) (although I felt like a could "drive" a twinstick with no problem, I did not have the "one hand drive" down with that unit)

If I didn't have a tractor to get, new heat pump to install and a new roof to put on (not in that order /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) it "might" of been a toss up between that front mount grasshopper (deisel, sp? of course) or the Kubota ZD series.

But...I did save ALOT of money, dealer seems like he knows what hes doing, the manufacturer you can actually (sp?) talk to, and most important, my dad loves it as well.

What I find some what funny is that the Scag was the very first unit I was "checking out" .

Tiger cub, 19hp Kawa, 48" deck for 6k.

 

[Dargo]

Oh, sorry, I was not intending to knock the joystick at all. It was intended as a self depricating remark in that I can't seem to pick up the "new" control method and am stuck in my "old" ways. I did not at all intend to infer that the twin sticks were superior. I just figured that there are likely others like me out there who are so used to the twin sticks that there literally is no thought in running the machine. I went to CountryClipper's website out of curiosity to see if they accomodated oldtimers too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In your case, it sure seems that the single joystick was the absolute best option. I just worded my previous post poorly.

 

[Sigarms]

Dargo

No "knock" taken /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yes, for my situation, joystick was the best option (particularly for my dad).

Is the Country Clipper the best mower out there? I don't think so (again, that front mount Grasshopper was REALLY nice, and the ZD series are PRETTY nice as well), but...for the price and what I got (and what I need to spend in the future for "other things"), no complaints.

A couple of things that I would "do" to improve the CC is have a fuel gauge (hard to tell how much gas you have), work on the drink holder in relationship to the brake, and although the ride isn't "that bad", I do have some pretty rough areas and the "ride" could be a little "softer". There are some other little things, but I'm nitpickin /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[bczoom]

I like the joystick since I didn't have the "old-timers" technique of the twin-stick. The location of the joystick is identical to where my FEL control is on my tractor so it came natural.

I agree with Sig that the CC isn't the best ZTR on the market but... it's the best ZTR for my needs. Capability on hills is what really sold me. If it couldn't handle them, I wouldn't be driving it.

 

[Kiohio]

If flat land, it's not important. If Hills VERY important. I have a customer we sold a 2504 Country Clipper to that was spending between 12 and 14hrs mowing the grass with a 36" walk behind, they have extremely steep hills. They cut side-hill with the 04 no problem the unit is hard to beat, takes 6-7 hrs now. It is short which actually helps when going side-hill on a 0-turn. Add the pivoting axle, joystick and then load the rear tires. You are good to go, at least as good as you are going to get on a 0-turn. I would put one up against any unit out there, on a hillside.The joystick is a "gotta-have" when mowing on a hillside! There are better and faster on flat ground, if money isn't an issue. Alot for the money.

KO