Scratch / Lift Start TIG Welding

[undercut]

Anyone have any experience with scratch start or lift start TIG welding? I want to know if anyone out there is actively doing it long term for actual projects and what compromises there might be doing so. Thanks.

 

[k0ua]

I am doing it with my Everlast Pa160. It works well, and the actual welding is the same. The starting takes some practice, not a big deal, and the stopping takes some practice (snap your wrist out to stop) Would HF start and a pedal to control the arc be nice?... you bet it would. Can you get done what you want done?.. You bet you can. Before all of that was invented everyone did TIG this way. Here is an example of something I repaired with Lift start Tig

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/239186-am-i-stupid-crafty.html

James K0UA

 

[LD1]

I dont like it. We have a Miller at work that has both lift-arc or pedal as options. I dont like the lift arc. You have to re-grind the tungsten more often cause of contamination, and you cant vary the heat like with a pedal. Which is nice when comming to the end of a joint on thin stuff so you dont blow through. I like the pedal and set the amps higher than what I need, cause I can always back off a little with the pedal.

The only benefit I see is if welding out of position or in an awkward area where trying to control the pedal is a PITA.

 

[k0ua]

I dont like it. We have a Miller at work that has both lift-arc or pedal as options. I dont like the lift arc. You have to re-grind the tungsten more often cause of contamination, and you cant vary the heat like with a pedal. Which is nice when comming to the end of a joint on thin stuff so you dont blow through. I like the pedal and set the amps higher than what I need, cause I can always back off a little with the pedal.

The only benefit I see is if welding out of position or in an awkward area where trying to control the pedal is a PITA.

While I don't disagree with anything you said, "poor people have poor ways".. Can you do a lot of work with it? Yes. is it as good as HF start, and pedal control of the current, for all the reasons you gave.. No..Is it a good way to get started cheap into TIG, and make you lust after better machines and methods.. Yes..

James K0UA

 

[LD1]

While I don't disagree with anything you said, "poor people have poor ways".. Can you do a lot of work with it? Yes. is it as good as HF start, and pedal control of the current, for all the reasons you gave.. No..Is it a good way to get started cheap into TIG, and make you lust after better machines and methods.. Yes..

James K0UA

Yes, it is cheaper. Dont get me wrong, I'd take a scratch start over no TIG ANYDAY. Just pointing out the major dis-advantages of it IMO. But the advantage of low cost trumps the dis-advantages for most homeowner-hobbiest as you mention.

I dont have a TIG at home. TOO $$$$. If I have something to be TIGed, I just take it to work and do it there. So in my case, I cant justify even a scratch start.

 

[mrmikey]

You have to re-grind the tungsten more often cause of contamination, and you cant vary the heat like with a pedal.

Thermadyne, ( Products ) as well as other companies no doubt, make a lift arc machine with a pedal. They demoed that machine at work a coupple of weeks ago, nice unit.
Lift arc doesn't necessarily mean no pedal control. All it does is lower the amperage so there's no arc when you touch the tungsten to the base metal so there's no (technically) contamination of the tungsten. When you 'lift' the tungsten from the base metal the arc initiates.
Is it as good as a high frequency start. nope but it beats no tig....Mike

 

[k0ua]

Thermadyne, ( Products ) as well as other companies no doubt, make a lift arc machine with a pedal. They demoed that machine at work a coupple of weeks ago, nice unit.
Lift arc doesn't necessarily mean no pedal control. All it does is lower the amperage so there's no arc when you touch the tungsten to the base metal so there's no (technically) contamination of the tungsten. When you 'lift' the tungsten from the base metal the arc initiates.
Is it as good as a high frequency start. nope but it beats no tig....Mike

I think what we are doing is technically called Scratch start not Lift start, as you pointed out the Lift start machine has some "smarts" and scratch start does not. There is some contamination, but it is minor after you get better at it.. Not near as bad as dipping the tungsten in the puddle while welding and there isn't any "gizmo" that fixes that:laughing:

James K0UA

 

[mrmikey]

You could be right James. I use the two names to describe the same thing

Not near as bad as dipping the tungsten in the puddle while welding and there isn't any "gizmo" that fixes that

LOL,cursing helps, not realy it just makes you feel better :laughing: .....Mike

 

[LD1]

Not near as bad as dipping the tungsten in the puddle while welding and there isn't any "gizmo" that fixes that:laughing:

James K0UA

Thats almost as bad as touching your filler wire to the tungsten:laughing:

 

[monckywrench]

It's not bad once you get comfortable with it. We trained many students to pass 6G pipe tests in nineteen weeks. Billions of dollars of pipeline and boilers and nuke plants are welded every year that way.