Seating new tires on rims

[JimR]

Today I learned a new way to seat tires that will not seat on the rims. I will not take resposibility should you try this and injure or kill yourself. I had two brand new Carlisle R4's mounted on my Cub Cadet wheels today. The company could not get the tires to seat on the rims. The sidewalls were so stiff that they would not come out. Yes, the tires were the proper size for the rims. They were 27x10.50x15 6 ply tires. I left the place with my tires and rims mounted but unseated on the rims. I told them that I would get them seated. When I got home my buddy was there waiting for me. We tried the strap around the outside of the tire to force out the sidewalls. That didn't work. We got one side seated and couldn't get the other side on. We even tried the inflated bicycle tube in the loose side. That didn't work. All of a sudden he said," Do you have any lighter fluid"? No was my reply, but I do have carb cleaner and starter fluid. So here is how we seated the tires. I squirted a small amount of ether into the valve stem with the core removed and lit it with my propane torch. The tires went boom and seated on the rim. It only took about one or two seconds to put enough ether into the tire. I could not ignite it using the valve stem. I did ignite it by putting air into the valve stem and lighting the fumes coming out of the leaking bead. This worked on both tires. I never laughed so hard after we got these on. It was so **** simple that it is down right funny. He told me that he had done this on his dumpster truck tire once when it lost air pressure and broke the bead. He did it right on the truck without removing the dual rear wheels. YES, this could be very dangerous. I also found out that too much fuel will not ignite. The fuel to air ratio has to be right to ignite. Using the air in the valve stem solved that problem. As I stated earlier in this post. You do this at your own risk.

 

[kennyd]

Old trick...They even showed a guy doing on "Swamp Loggers" the other night!

 

[JimR]

Old trick...They even showed a guy doing on "Swamp Loggers" the other night!

Well I wish I had learned this trick years ago. I can't recall the number of tires that I have had problems with over the years on tractors and such.

 

[Bird]

As Kenny said, it's a very old trick, and as you stated yourself, it's also a very dangerous trick. I would NOT recommend it to anyone.

 

[JimR]

As Kenny said, it's a very old trick, and as you stated yourself, it's also a very dangerous trick. I would NOT recommend it to anyone.

I just got through watching a ton of You Tube videos of guys doing this. What a riot to watch them not only seat the bead back on but inflate the tire with gas too.

 

[Barry Bowen]

That is a very old trick, but a new wrinkle on that old trick. When I did it before all you had to do was spray it around the inside of the tire. The starting fluid was so volatile that just throwing a match or lite cigarette would lite it. Chemicals have been added to cut down on the volatility, but it sounds like you found a good idea airing the tire some and lighting the valve stem.

The other trick I use is a have a 5 gallon air tank that I can empty instantly around the bead. May not have worked in your case, but you never know.

 

[JimR]

That is a very old trick, but a new wrinkle on that old trick. When I did it before all you had to do was spray it around the inside of the tire. The starting fluid was so volatile that just throwing a match or lite cigarette would lite it. Chemicals have been added to cut down on the volatility, but it sounds like you found a good idea airing the tire some and lighting the valve stem.

The other trick I use is a have a 5 gallon air tank that I can empty instantly around the bead. May not have worked in your case, but you never know.

Lighting the valve stem only makes it a small torch. I put air in the valve stem and lit around the bead with my propane torch. It was instant seating on both wheels. from what I saw on You Tube, Butane or hair spray works better.

 

[Barry Bowen]

Going back a little to the basic problem, Where the tires cold, or where they worm from being in a heated shop? Sometimes, but not always just getting them warm and a little softer will let them seat easier. Another trick I have used on 28" rubber going tubeless was to inflate it with a tube for overnight, and then remove the tube the next day. The side wall was out enough then that it would seat with no trouble, but it was a pain doing it that way.

 

[Steve Bosshard]

I have seen the trick with ether - same stuff that can blow the top of a piston into the crank case....

Had the same problem with tires on an MTD riding mower. After all of the usual tricks the tire folks took a portable air tank with a large 1/4 turn valve and a horn attachment that looked like the snout from a fire extinguisher.

One guy held the wheel and tire. A second fed air into the tire through the valve stem.

Man # 3 had the fully charged portable air tank and aimed at the opening between the rim and bead and dumped the entire contents of the portable tank into the tire through the snout in a few seconds - pop and she seated - no fire or explosion. steve

 

[JimR]

Going back a little to the basic problem, Where the tires cold, or where they worm from being in a heated shop? Sometimes, but not always just getting them warm and a little softer will let them seat easier. Another trick I have used on 28" rubber going tubeless was to inflate it with a tube for overnight, and then remove the tube the next day. The side wall was out enough then that it would seat with no trouble, but it was a pain doing it that way.

The tires were warm. The sidewalls were really stiff. The tube trick would work for sure.

 

[Rustywreck]

after reading this, I watched some youtube videos of it being done. the explosion method seems to work, but don't know if I'd do it. I sure wouldn't do it with anyone watching - that usually guarantees I look like a fool.

 

[JimR]

after reading this, I watched some youtube videos of it being done. the explosion method seems to work, but don't know if I'd do it. I sure wouldn't do it with anyone watching - that usually guarantees I look like a fool.

I can only say that it works like a charm. I would not overload the tires with flammable liquid like I saw in the You Tube videos. I guess they did this to also inflate the tire at the same time. I will be using that method in the future for stubborn non road use tires.

 

[beenthere]

And this trick can cause a tire to go bouncing off into space (or your shop, or whatever else might be close by, including you). That prolly is the biggest danger, and not the explosion itself (unless lit by a cigarette lighter and a finger gets caught in the bead, or the arm sleeve goes up in flames. )
A good trick to know, and one to be very careful with, as already mentioned. My buddy tells of the lawn tractor tire that took off bouncing around the shop. Dented the ceiling and landed finally on a classic car being restored. Had to completely re-do the hood.

 

[NuBota]

I just did all four tires on my old lawn tractor a few weeks ago. The ratchet strap method worked fine for the front tires.

Had a devil of a time seating the first rear tire with the strap. Was real close to using the ether method - but was paranoid - so kept wrestling with the strap. Finally got out the torch and ether and an 18' telescoping pole - plan was to strap the propane torch to the pole and go out into the middle of the yard for my first attempt - just in case I used too much. It was late at night at this point so I decided to wait until morning. Made one last attempt with the strap, and hugging the tire and got it. Tried the second one same way and got it pretty quick.

So I will save the pyro method (long pole mode!) for another day.....

 

[sandman2234]

The main thing that concerns me with the petroleum based ether or gasoline is the effects on the tire long term. Especially if there is some residue left inside the tire that didn't burn due to some off the wall reason. Softening rubber to mount it, while making it easier to mount, might have long term effects on the lifespan of the tire. (ONLY a concern, not a validated reason!!) The company mounting the O/P tire should have been able to mount the tires on clean rust-free rims using the proper methods, but who knows all the varibles that they might have run into. If rim sizes vary as much as width sizes does, then it is possible that a slight difference in the overall diameter of the tire bead does affect the mounting of the O/P's tire. I recently purchased a pair of tires for my Steiner and the tires arrived with the correct markings, but OBVIOUSLY were not the same as the tires that I had already mounted. There is almost two inches difference in the width of the tires and are both marked exactly the same. So if the manufacturer can't get a width correct, why would any of us believe that diameter of the rim bead could be held in strict tollerance?
David from jax

 

[The Haymaker]

My NH sales rep was a tire guy in a past life. This was his method for doing truck tires in the back of his service truck. He said the one time he overdid it on a stubborn tire, he increased his headroom 3" in the truck. In other words, it's fine, just keep your head out of the predicted trajectory!

I've even used this on stubborn ties of my two-wheeler I peddle freight with. Grease on the beads also helps.

Other than an already compromised wheel failing, I don't see a huge safety issue with this. I don't think there's much you could do to a tire that is any worse than the stresses seen during normal use.

In my spud-gun hobby, the pressures created by ether, methane and butane is only around 60 psi, and that's in a much smaller chamber with the same amount of fuel.

 

[JimR]

My NH sales rep was a tire guy in a past life. This was his method for doing truck tires in the back of his service truck. He said the one time he overdid it on a stubborn tire, he increased his headroom 3" in the truck. In other words, it's fine, just keep your head out of the predicted trajectory!

I've even used this on stubborn ties of my two-wheeler I peddle freight with. Grease on the beads also helps.

Other than an already compromised wheel failing, I don't see a huge safety issue with this. I don't think there's much you could do to a tire that is any worse than the stresses seen during normal use.

In my spud-gun hobby, the pressures created by ether, methane and butane is only around 60 psi, and that's in a much smaller chamber with the same amount of fuel.

My thoughts exactly. The only tire bounce that should be experienced is from the tire expanding outwards toward the floor. Since the lower bead was already on, the bounce was miniscule. I will be doing this more in the future. No more straps to suck the widewalls out. This was so much easier to do. For the faint of heart, don't try it, it may scare the heck out of you. There is no loud bang either, just a pop as the tire seats on the rim.

 

[The Haymaker]

I do keep water handy because any ether in liquid form on the outside will burn.

I love my spigots in the shop!

 

[JimR]

I do keep water handy because any ether in liquid form on the outside will burn.

I love my spigots in the shop!

Remember that water should not be used on flammable liquids.

 

[The Haymaker]

Remember that water should not be used on flammable liquids.

Depends on the amount. Traces of ether or a burning engine, water will work fine. For larger spills or pools, no, water is bad. It'll spread/spatter.

I do have a few extinguishers down there too, but water is much easier when welding.... Or making noise inflating tires.