Seized/Rusted engine 51 Farmall Super C

[Schroby]

Hey all- I've "inherited" a 51 Super C, it's my first tractor. It was driven to the spot it's parked at 5 years ago, and to little surprised the engine's now seized/rusted. I'm currently soaking the cylinders w/ rust buster & diesel fuel, and I've tried to turn it over by hand w/ a pipe wrench on the pto. Any other thoughts before I start taking the engine apart? I'm going to let the the cylinders soak through this week, then jump back into it. Any input is appreciated!

 

[PILOON]

I know that one process often used to free up stuck pistons is to remouve the head, and using a wood 'plug' (roughly piston sized) rap each piston solidly with a heavy hammer.

Wood being softer than the piston will not damage it.
Trick would be to rap progressivly each piston one blow at a time until the break free.

The first step is (as you are doing) to soak then the hammer/wood routine.

Either way since piston rings are jammed the head needs remouval.

If you are lucky enough you are facing , basically, a 'ring job' and maybe not more than that.
But while into it you'd want to verify bearings and probably 'lap' the valves.

On the other hand, if the engine was 'real tight' before the rings rusted up I've known engines to free up and run on for many hours. Once running the rings would re-seat themselves. But if well worn the tolerances could allow blowby and exessive oil consumption.
however I'd say this would be an iffy 'toss of the dice'

Good luck!

 

[PILOON]

Is the Farmall a gaz engine?

One thought that comes to mind would be compressed air via a spark plug hole and a suitable adapter.
(Smash out spark plug porcelin and weld on an air hose adaptor)
Maybe only one cylinder is stuck.
Might be worth a try.

 

[bncsauve]

I'm not familiar with the mechanics of your tractor, but I would think that you would not be putting much torque on the crankshaft by turning the pto. They are usually geared down about 5 to 1. Instead, how about turning the fly wheel or even crankshaft pulley? The wood plug on the piston is a good suggestion.

 

[billbill1]

I've seen my Dad take off the oil pan, and use a bottle jack to apply pressure on the crankshaft by jacking up on rod bearings. He would soak the cylinders with diesel fuel and the engine would break free under it's own weight. Once they break loose he could always get them running.

 

[Spiffy]

Having the rings cooperate is iffy. But I'd say worth not taking the head. Unless he gets aggressive and cracks the rings so running would scratch the cylinder walls, there's little to harm trying to get lucky. May want to pull that valve cover and make sure all the valves are loose; no point in bending a valve or rocker on start-up.

I too like compressed air spark plug adaptors [it's pretty easy to hollow out a plug and braze an air fitting]. Of course, then it will be one with an open valve that is seized! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But can't hurt to try.

Time is your friend if you have it; keep the cylinders full of diesel, and tap lightly [don't beat on it] each direction on that pipe wrech every few days for a while; then try all your weight [gradually applied - not behind a hammer! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif]. The PTO is probably a 2 or 3 torque disadvange [might be wise to have an adaptor or something on there also, to avoid burring the shaft], but not all bad. Finally, I've never done it, but always thought it would make sense to put a tube on a shop-va, suck out your first fill of solvent to get rid of any moisture, then refill.

Have fun! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Somehow got thinking, if you have the valve cover off, could just as well pull the rocker assemblies. That way, barring stuck vavles [which need to be fixed anyway] you wounld't have any open valves to interfere with pressuriizing [if you decide to try that method] the cylinders.

Oh, be sure to change the oil and filter before starting it. And again after an hour [running time, doesn't need to be continuous, but should get to operating temp at least once] too.

 

[turnkey4099]

Lots of good suggestions.

My brother resurrected a Farmall Cub that had been sitting a lot longer than that. He used the 'remove head and rap on piston' method along with soaking with rust buster type stuff. He was a professional mechanic so.

His method was to keep the rust buster going and give each piston a rap with a hammer using the handle end. No, not a heavy hammer You don't want to manhandle this job. A few medium taps each day will do it. Do not tackle is as a "I'm going to get this thing freed up in the next hour" job. It is a job that calls for finesse and patience, not brute force.

Harry K

 

[BobG_in_VA]

All the previous posts are postiive. Mine will be as well. I've got a "few" Farmalls with the C-123 engine (Super C engine). couple of things--Was the exhaust covered while it was sitting (either weather cap or can). Pull all the plugs (I'm sure you have as you already have the "stuff" in there). Was there any water sitting on top of the pistons?? OK, here goes:

Assuming you didn't get rain down the exhaust and fill up the manifold, you should take compressed air and blow out all the 'stuff' you have in their now. I've found the best thing to unseize an engine is Automatic transmission fluid!! It will seep in some strange places and lubes as it goes. Now, here's how you see if you can move the pistons. Jack up the right rear axel till its off the ground. Put the tractor in 4th gear (top gear). Rock the right rear wheel (for those of you not familiar with old Farmall's this is a 36 inch rim plus tire, you can get some good torque here) back and forth. If it doesn't want to move don't force it. Leave the ATF in the cyl. You should be able to move it "some" within a week or so. If you do keep it up till you can rotate the tire completely around. Please drain the oil before you do anything. I wouldn't change the filter yet as it is a cartridge type. Can anyone tell you why they Parked it?? Anyway, go to "ytmag.com" (Google Yesterdays Tractors"). They have a great set of forums and one of them is for Farmalls. All the infor you can digest in the next 2 years is there. Good luck and let us know how it goes! BobG in VA

 

[SimS]

Spiffy;
Were you suggesting to vacuum flammable liquids with a Shop Vac? That might be a reciepe for disater. Other than that, all good ideas so far. Time and patience generally will work.

SimS

 

[oliver28472]

Does this tractor have a magneto? A friend was unloading a stuck tractor off a trailer and while it was rolling he put it in high gear, eased out on the clutch and the mag shelled out. The mag was stuck, not the engine. It was not a Super C.

 

[JerryG]

I worked on a IH 140 that was the same way. It had sat with out a can over the stack for several years. It only had one cylinder that was stuck. I soaked it down with PB Blaster or WD40. Pulled the head and dropped the pan. Took the cap off of the rod on the bad cylinder. Turned the rod journal to where it would be to one side. Then put rubber tubes over the bolts so that the bolts wouldn't hurt the journal and would deflect over it they hit it. Took a wood round and a hammer and gently drove the piston down some. Cleaned the cylinder while the piston was down and then pushed it out the top. Ran a hone a few time and installed the piston. Worked great.

 

[Spiffy]

<font color="blue">flammable liquids with a Shop Vac? That might be a reciepe for disater </font>

Maybe I'm luckier than I thought! It's just all used up because my shop vac hasn't exploded while vacuuming pretty much anything I spill, volitile or not! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Doubt this old dog will learn until my vac explodes; but he's right: probably not a very good idea!

 

[TillerofdaEarth]

Another idea is to hook a tow rope from the front axle of your tractor to a large tree or other stout option of your choice. Preferably on level ground... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Use a pick up or another tractor to pull your tractor back, stretching the tow rope, then place the tractor in 4th gear. Just leave it set like that with your oil mixture in the cylinders until the tow rope goes slack.

This has worked for a tractor salvage yard owner many times, and though I have never had the need to try it I always thought it sounded like a pretty good idea.

 

[chili]

I just read a thread under oils about someone putting Marvel Mystery Oil in an old boat moter that was seized and let it sit. He worked the prop little by little until it came loose and ran fine. Might be worth a try.

 

[JerryG]

The only thing about putting a lot of pressure or pull on it without taking it apart is that there is a good chance that you will break a ring and still have to take it apart.

 

[AKfish]

It's been alot of year's since I've been around any of the old Farmall's. Used to do a little raking on a 'ol C. Super C was a power house! There's a lot of good suggestions here. Most of 'em advise going slow and the truth be known -- yup, might still bust a ring! I don't know what the front of the crankshaft looks like on this Super C but many of them are tapped and threaded. Some of the rebuild projects I've worked on; we put a large bolt with lock washer and snugged it up into the end of the crankshaft. With a large socket and cheater bar you could apply pressure directly to the crank, rods and pistons. Probably be a good idea to loosen up the rocker arms and leave the spark plugs out as mentioned. If the cylinders (one or more) got loaded up with water, you might have a stuck valve, too (or two). Push rods don't take much to bend...
I'd think that if you work on the thing longer than a week and still can't get the ATF/diesel blend to loosen things up -- you probably ought to just roll up your sleeves and pull 'er all down. Good luck and let us know how everything works out. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
AKfish

 

[Schroby]

Wow, you guys have given some great advice. The tractor was parked because he got a Ford 8n, so this one sat and rotted under the trees. It doesn't have a muffler- he used some threaded pipe (?) and elbowed it to the side, however plenty of moisture made it's way to the combustion chamber since brown goo & chunks come out when I overfill with diesel. I have tried rocking the tires, but no luck. This was parked with the plow "down", is this a concern? I don't have air available (will an air can work?), so I think I'll continue with the lube treatment. I could anchor a cumalong to a tree and the tractor, should I do this with a little pressure while soaking? I think removing the rockers sounds like a good idea. Thanks again for the advice, I think some patience and persistence will pay off.

 

[jimmysisson]

Just a small warning. Years ago (1971) I bought a Farmall A for $50 because the previous owner had busted it. It was sitting in a deep puddle that froze the rear tires in. A fella offered to help him pull it out, and chained onto the front casting where the steering box grows out of the engine block. They didn't get it out of the ice, but they did manage to bust the housing, basically pulled the poor thing apart. It was fixable and ran 25 years more, but always leaked oil as the break ran through an oil passageway. I'd be leery of pulling one end of a tractor trying to do something to the other end.
Patience is called for in your project. This is a pretty simple rebuild as such things go, and then you'd know what you had. Even if you don't think the old girl is worth the work, you'll be amazed how much a Super C will pull.
Jim

 

[Nat]

Schroby, I have had several old tractors that were stuck when I got them, and always had sucess with pouring automatic trans fluid into spark plug holes the letting it set for a few days then removing the starter and using a crowbar on the teeth of the flywheel. Just get it to move the first time then allow the fluid to work far another day od so then use the prybar on the flywheel again.I rotate the engine severar rounds forward and then backwards then with the plugs still out I pull it around slowly in high gear with another tractor or truck. To me the main thing is to do it slowly. It didn't stickin a day so I would try to free it to fast.
You will have a lot of fun with the Super C. Here are some pics of my old Farmall C when I got it. Later, Nat