Self Defense Ammo do's and don'ts

[Bird]

Another Hornady critical defense user here also. The only thing in your entire post that was questionable in my mind was the military switching to hollowpoint ammo. I understand some is used, but as far as I know it is still against treaty.

Everything else sounds spot on to me, including the FBI switching back to 9mm for the reasons given. Go back to that gun shop, she knows what she is talking about.

Now I don't have any personal information, but I don't think hollow point ammo is forbidden by treaty anymore. If I remember right dum dum bullets were forbidden and many people took that to mean hollow points, and that may be correct, although some took it to mean a fragmenting bullet instead of an expanding bullet. At any rate I think that treaty has been changed. When I started on the police department nearly 52 years ago, we were forbidden to carry hollow point ammo, but it was probably 35-40 years ago that the standard issue ammo became hollow points, after the Dallas Medical Examiner's office did a study, using military grade gell, that concluded the hollow points were safer; less penetration, but as much knock down power, less likely to go through and hit an unintended target, etc.

 

[RSKY]

I believe she mentioned to always use expanding ammunition because of over penetration. And the military is not banned from using hollowpoints because of treaty. Look it up on StrategyPage. I found it last night.

 

[TripleR]

This might help: US Army is Considering Hollow-Point Bullets to Go with New Pistol | Military.com

 

[davesl708]

There are some good points in the OP's statement. As to ammunition I carry what the LEO's carry. If defense lawyers want to argue that point good luck.
No modifications to my carry other than laser sights (helps in the dark).

I reviewed the Geneva Convention treaty and found no changes that allow military to use ammo other than standard ball ammo.
Special OPs may be using other types of ammo for their work (the general public may never know what they use).

There is a tv show called "Best Defense" . You can watch a lot of it online or get the DVD's. It covers a lot of what was stated and a lawyer discusses what the ramifications of your actions. A program well worth checking out.

Here in my area we have at least one lawyer I know of that specializes in defense cases and you should research lawyers in your area in case you need them quickly. Keep their number handy. You may only get one phone call for defending yourself.

 

[k0ua]

This might help: US Army is Considering Hollow-Point Bullets to Go with New Pistol | Military.com

Well it looks like she was right about that too! I am glad to see the trend of the Military towards HP ammo if they are going to stick with the 9MM.

 

[bcp]

I read somewhere that using hollow point bullets to increase injuries was against the treaty, but using hollow points for other reasons, like to increase long range accuracy, was not prohibited.

And, it was the Hague Convention, not Geneva, that was about expanding bullets. And then it only applied when the war was between signers.

I think the Geneva Convention was mostly about prisoners.

From:
https://www.icrc.org/applic/ihl/ihl...t&documentId=F5FF4D9CA7E41925C12563CD0051616B

Declare as follows:
The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions.
The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.
It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Powers, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power.

 

[Texas Dawg]

the funny thing is the critical defense and the Zombie load are the same with a different colored tip. I agree with the trigger work, because you don't want a light trigger on a gun that you will be operating in a heightened stress level. too much risk of stress induced muscle twitches. Now if you ask people to provide actually court cases where it has gotten people convicted you wouldn't find any.

The best thing to do if you don't know what ammo to use a defense carry pistol is go ask your local police what ammo they carry, and then load that in your firearm.

I bought the Zombie loads at Cabela's when they were on sale for $2 less a box than the critical defense ammo. Since they are the same other than the color of the tip, I never gave it another thought other than to think how ridiculous the Zombie name was (not a Walking Dead fan). Maybe I need to rethink that in the future.

 

[dragoneggs]

Subscribed... this could be a good learning thread for me. I like these type of discussions in the tractor forum vs. a hand gun forum only because of more likely 'like minded' or similar situation folks chiming in. I'm not hard core and don't feel like participating in a dedicated gun forum. That said I do also occasionally lurk around in gun forums.

 

[4570Man]

I was impressed with the only Hornady critical defense round I have fired. I shot it through an empty spray paint can into a 2x6 and dug it out. It had made a perfect mushroom.

 

[RSKY]

I shot a belligerent possum with a Hornady Critical Defense. It would not get out of the trap and started snapping at me. It had also been sprayed by a skunk,....under my house...... So I popped it on the left side with my LCP. Didn't think it had done any damage at first. The critter just dropped. rolled it over and the entire right side was blown off. I was impressed but didn't like the mess.

Have I even mentioned that I hate skunks?

I mess with guns all the time and love to target shoot. But one of my greatest fears is actually hitting a person. I cannot pull the trigger unless I am sure there is nobody anywhere in range that could be struck. My usual shooting place is slightly downhill at the edge of a forty acre field. Can see for a long way and any shots high will bury into the ground. Also ricochets will spend themselves into the field. Hollow points loose more energy when they expand and will not skip as far across a field.

I cannot imagine the horror of actually HAVING to shoot another human. Even having to do so to protect my family would be terrible.

RSKY