Seller reneges...options?
- Thread starter ultrarunner
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My understanding was that the seller was agreeing to hold the tractor -- maybe I read that wrong.)</font>
"The seller and I agreed on price and delivery was set."
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In any event, if it wasn't in writing, my guess is the Statue of Frauds would apply anyway.)</font>
Interesting point, here. The Statute of Frauds does not actually require that the contract itself be in writing, but that there be some evidential memorandum or other writing that indicates that an oral contract exists. If there is no writing, the oral contract still exists, but it is voidable.
What's interesting is in this day of electronic communication, what constitutes "writing"? Photos were sent. The seller emailed the buyer that the tractor had been sold. Without more information, one could envision a scenario that the entire exchange, or substantial amounts of it, were by email. If so, the emails could be patched together to be sufficient "writing" to satisfy the Statute of Frauds. I admit I'm doing some "supposing", here.
Regardless, after re-reading all of the messages, it appears that the buyer did not suffer sufficient detriment to require a damage award. He didn't travel to pick up the tractor, he probably didn't pass up a good deal on another tractor because of the seller's promises, he probably just suffered disappointment. So, while there is an oral contract, and the real possibility of some sort of evidence to satisfy the Statute of Frauds, it probably is just a nice technical point of law, and no point in pursuing it because there was no real damage. About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.
Bottom line, I think I was right that there was an oral contract, very possibly enforceable, but probably wrong about damages, unless the buyer can document how he was hurt.
"The seller and I agreed on price and delivery was set."
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In any event, if it wasn't in writing, my guess is the Statue of Frauds would apply anyway.)</font>
Interesting point, here. The Statute of Frauds does not actually require that the contract itself be in writing, but that there be some evidential memorandum or other writing that indicates that an oral contract exists. If there is no writing, the oral contract still exists, but it is voidable.
What's interesting is in this day of electronic communication, what constitutes "writing"? Photos were sent. The seller emailed the buyer that the tractor had been sold. Without more information, one could envision a scenario that the entire exchange, or substantial amounts of it, were by email. If so, the emails could be patched together to be sufficient "writing" to satisfy the Statute of Frauds. I admit I'm doing some "supposing", here.
Regardless, after re-reading all of the messages, it appears that the buyer did not suffer sufficient detriment to require a damage award. He didn't travel to pick up the tractor, he probably didn't pass up a good deal on another tractor because of the seller's promises, he probably just suffered disappointment. So, while there is an oral contract, and the real possibility of some sort of evidence to satisfy the Statute of Frauds, it probably is just a nice technical point of law, and no point in pursuing it because there was no real damage. About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.
Bottom line, I think I was right that there was an oral contract, very possibly enforceable, but probably wrong about damages, unless the buyer can document how he was hurt.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( About the only thing that could possibly be ordered would be specific performance; the seller has to deliver the tractor to the buyer in return for the payment. That would probably only apply to one of a kind items, that is, if there are no other similar tractors available at a similar price.)</font>
Well and besides that there is someone else who legitimately owns the tractor and would have much more claim to it then the complainant since he paid for it and took possession of it.
Well and besides that there is someone else who legitimately owns the tractor and would have much more claim to it then the complainant since he paid for it and took possession of it.
Poncho
Gold Member
Junkman... you originally indicated "examining" something. Regardless if your looking at tractors, cars, antiques or whatever... to me this means a close up personal inspection... and not just looking and relying on pictures, sales history etc. I'm an auto enthusiast also and realize a lot can be missed through just pictures.... even though they may be worth a 1000 words, you would still be missing a lot of the story. I personally wouldn't drop a bundle on something that is long distance without an inspection. But there are a lot that do this... and as you indicate pictures may be involved, or you may know someone in the area who could inspect it for you etc. I also believe in contracts/binders.... but a contract or binder is not always going to be there nor do I always use them.... as you or someone else posted, I consider what it is I'm buying, the vibes from the seller etc. The original poster indicated their dissatisfaction about a tractor being sold out from under him after a verbal deal had been struck, and asking what his options were... obviously there was a comfort level initially. I agree with a lot of the other posters that this just needs to be chalked up to experience with verbal contracts and the need to move on for another tractor. There are still many people out there that are good for their word...and there are many more fraudulent people out there.
OP
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Thanks for everyone's input.
In retrospect, I posted to see if my experience was an isolated case or more the norm. From reading the posts I have learned that there still are a lot of honorable people out there!
Even though the terms of my purchase were in "writing" (emails), I am not looking to go after anyone...just advice for the future.
I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!
Thanks again!!
In retrospect, I posted to see if my experience was an isolated case or more the norm. From reading the posts I have learned that there still are a lot of honorable people out there!
Even though the terms of my purchase were in "writing" (emails), I am not looking to go after anyone...just advice for the future.
I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!
Thanks again!!
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I am sure that I will get over my disappointment in a couple of years!)</font>
The second you buy something better somewhere else I'm sure /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good luck.
The second you buy something better somewhere else I'm sure /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good luck.
I'm a frustrated, wannabe lawyer. I've been fascinated with the law most of my life. However, I was raised in a poor, uneducated family. It was an era when people were expected to take a job appropriate to their economic station and maintain it for life. I was very naive. Somehow, I got it into my head that one had to be of a certain status to be a lawyer; I believed that one had to be invited to law school, not that one could fight to get in.
By the time I learned differently, circumstances kept getting in the way. I started college at age 22, but didn't graduate until I was 31, doing most of it at night (Boston U's Metropolitan College). I planned to go to night school at Suffolk Law in Boston, but at age 32, we moved to Florida -- and there were no night law schools within commuting distance. I couldn't afford to quit and go to day school because I had a family to support.
I have regrets, but no bitterness. I've had a great life. I remain fascinated by the law, and I think I might have made a good attorney.
By the time I learned differently, circumstances kept getting in the way. I started college at age 22, but didn't graduate until I was 31, doing most of it at night (Boston U's Metropolitan College). I planned to go to night school at Suffolk Law in Boston, but at age 32, we moved to Florida -- and there were no night law schools within commuting distance. I couldn't afford to quit and go to day school because I had a family to support.
I have regrets, but no bitterness. I've had a great life. I remain fascinated by the law, and I think I might have made a good attorney.
BigAl
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Hi Junkman ,
Actually I never did meet the man in person until the the deal was closed . He lived in Washington and I was in Calif at the time . We emailed and talk two times on the phone .I sent him the papers ,he signed them and sent me the full amount . I can agree with what you say but thats not the way I ever conducted my bussinesses .I have made many deals your over my life involving large sums and a lot of them were on my word or a handshake . Yes , I realize that is not the way business is done now . It cuts to many lawyers out of the picture .Well , I never had much use for lawyers anyway . Guess I must have done something right . I retired at 48
Big Al
Actually I never did meet the man in person until the the deal was closed . He lived in Washington and I was in Calif at the time . We emailed and talk two times on the phone .I sent him the papers ,he signed them and sent me the full amount . I can agree with what you say but thats not the way I ever conducted my bussinesses .I have made many deals your over my life involving large sums and a lot of them were on my word or a handshake . Yes , I realize that is not the way business is done now . It cuts to many lawyers out of the picture .Well , I never had much use for lawyers anyway . Guess I must have done something right . I retired at 48
Big Al
MossRoad
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Right! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif