Septic Field Question
- Thread starter Jastak
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SPIKER
Elite Member
JUNKMAN:
yes: I posted under BOTH FORUMS nearly same time... I clicked respond to this post, and then clicked respond to the other post on wood burners. but for some reason the one switched over right prior to my starting to type!... so wrong post was made, and corrected very quickly... YOU mush be the one with REALLY FAST fingures as it was only about 30 seconds after reading the 2nd post topic that I realized I was in the wrong post... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif anyhow alls fixed and I didn't think anyone would catch me on that one! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
(humm no wait: JUNKMAN IS CRAZY! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif ya thats it HE'S CRAZY not me! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )
MarkM /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
yes: I posted under BOTH FORUMS nearly same time... I clicked respond to this post, and then clicked respond to the other post on wood burners. but for some reason the one switched over right prior to my starting to type!... so wrong post was made, and corrected very quickly... YOU mush be the one with REALLY FAST fingures as it was only about 30 seconds after reading the 2nd post topic that I realized I was in the wrong post... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif anyhow alls fixed and I didn't think anyone would catch me on that one! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
(humm no wait: JUNKMAN IS CRAZY! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif ya thats it HE'S CRAZY not me! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif )
MarkM /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Currmudgeon
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would thinnnk that there needs to be a survey, BEFORE going after this guy to PROOVE where everything is, if it is just a few feet off then I would not think it would be worth worrying about. )</font>
If you're lucky, you'll have got a survey when you bought.
You might want to talk with the county health department, or whoever regulates septic tanks in your area. Typically, there restictions about how close you can build to a drain field, and how close it can be to a property line. You'll want to know the rules before you can decide how to proceed.
If it turns out to be no big deal, you might want to have your lawyer draw up a borderline agreement or a one-dollar lease, so your neighbor can't claim the land by adverse possession. Alternatively, the County may require him to obtain an easement from you, for the drain field. That should not be a perpetual easement, but only for the natural life of the drainfield, which then may not be replaced on your property.
It sounds like you both may want to make common cause against the sellers and maybe a title insurance claim.
If you're lucky, you'll have got a survey when you bought.
You might want to talk with the county health department, or whoever regulates septic tanks in your area. Typically, there restictions about how close you can build to a drain field, and how close it can be to a property line. You'll want to know the rules before you can decide how to proceed.
If it turns out to be no big deal, you might want to have your lawyer draw up a borderline agreement or a one-dollar lease, so your neighbor can't claim the land by adverse possession. Alternatively, the County may require him to obtain an easement from you, for the drain field. That should not be a perpetual easement, but only for the natural life of the drainfield, which then may not be replaced on your property.
It sounds like you both may want to make common cause against the sellers and maybe a title insurance claim.
Currmudgeon
Gold Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( you could stop it at property line )</font>
I'd check with my lawyer, first.
That having been said, I was approached once by a woman whose neighbor's septic tank had failed. He simply ran a black pipe to her property line and discharged raw sewage. Apparently, the health department was too lazy do deal with it.
I told her that, off the record, I'd hire a concrete pumper, hook it to his pipe, and stop pumping when concrete came out his chimney.
I'd check with my lawyer, first.
That having been said, I was approached once by a woman whose neighbor's septic tank had failed. He simply ran a black pipe to her property line and discharged raw sewage. Apparently, the health department was too lazy do deal with it.
I told her that, off the record, I'd hire a concrete pumper, hook it to his pipe, and stop pumping when concrete came out his chimney.
Thats not only an idea,its an evil idea that would work,well, could work in that situation,,think about coming home and finding wet cement running through your kitchen floor,,take you a few min. to figure that one out,,pretty messed up deal they got,,,I hate to say it,,but laywer seems like a word to be used here,,,and after its all said and done,,the lawyers will make more money than the properties worth,,,buyer beware huh?
I still say either buy my lot,or quite pumping %^(*,under it,,,sounds pretty reasonable? thingy
I still say either buy my lot,or quite pumping %^(*,under it,,,sounds pretty reasonable? thingy
Whenever you enter into a purchase agreement, there is always a feaseability period for the buyer to assess issues such as water, septic, property lines and so forth. Ignorance of the property condition is no excuse. That being said, I would definately want to discuss it with the neighbor but once you have had a disscussion about it , it will limit your actions. He had the responsibility to assure that his septic was operational and on his property. And I would have a hard time spending money on a lawyer for something that is the neighbor's responsibility. In our area, if you need to do a major septic repair, The health dept. will make you bring everything up to current code. such as proper setback from property line, wells, buildings. So if I was to dig a hole or two to plant some trees, and Find a drainfeild, it would accomplish my mission, which would be to have the neighbors sewer on the neighbors property.
Hello Junkman,
I found out "through the grapevine" as neigbors of mine were talking about the fact that the field was on my lot and not the home owners. The homeowner cannot put a field on his lot without either tearing down all of his trees, or his garage. I didn't want it to get this bad, but the seller (who originally owned both properties) will not call either of us back and has said "talk to her attorney's".
I found out "through the grapevine" as neigbors of mine were talking about the fact that the field was on my lot and not the home owners. The homeowner cannot put a field on his lot without either tearing down all of his trees, or his garage. I didn't want it to get this bad, but the seller (who originally owned both properties) will not call either of us back and has said "talk to her attorney's".
Hello,
I have the septic permit and it claims all septic items (tank and field) are on the neighbors lot, but they are not. Neither the seller, the homeowner, the health department, not the septic installer are claiming any responsibility for the error on the permit or of the placement of the field. The tank is only 3 feet from the property line as well and it needs to be 6 feet.
I have the septic permit and it claims all septic items (tank and field) are on the neighbors lot, but they are not. Neither the seller, the homeowner, the health department, not the septic installer are claiming any responsibility for the error on the permit or of the placement of the field. The tank is only 3 feet from the property line as well and it needs to be 6 feet.
Thank you for all of your posts. Some have asked additional questions, and I REALLY appreciate the advice. I purchased this lot in 2/04. The home owner next door who is using the field that is on my lot purchase his home in 2002. The new field was put in in 4/2001 by the then owner of both properties. This owner is claiming they did not know where the property line was, and "thought' she was putting the field on the home's lot. It was not until I got a survey "prior to purchase" she claims that she found out where the true propertly line was. Even at that point however she did not disclose the field, or the fact that the tank was only 3 feet from the line. The field is 100% on my property. I'm 99% sure she knew she was placing the field in a spot that would render her unable to split the land because even if the field were placed within where she "thought" the line was, it would still have staddled that line. I tried to work it out with her. The homeowner's lot does not have enough room to put a field because of a 3 car garage, well, trees...thus the reason the field is on my lot. Her remedy was to dig him a new field (the health dept. was going to grant the variance for him to place it in his back yard), and use the existing tank-where it is. I would have to sign a variance/encroachment permission for him to do this. I do not want to do anything that will make the land worth less money. She also wants to use my land to gain access to the homeowners back yard in order to do this. I asked that if I allow this, that she put the land back as she found it, and she said "no", that she cannot water the grass and make sure it looks as good as it does now. So..that the story.
MicroPilot
Veteran Member
Unfortunately it sounds as if you need to hire a lawyer.
slydog
Gold Member
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What ever you do, send a registered letter to both the woman you bought the property from, and the neighbor, stating your objection to the encroachment on your property. You need something in writing, with both date and time, documenting your disapproval. There is a statute in most states laws known as prescriptive easement, which basically states, after a certain number of years (arkansas is 7 some are more, some less) if you allow acess across your property without ascerting your disapproval, an easement for the egress can be legally recognized by the courts as if an easement were originally granted. In other words, if you don't descent, at some point in the future, they can claim prescriptive easement, and keep their "stuff" on your land. I know for a fact this applies to "right of way" and ingress and egress, but it might possibly also apply to utility type easements as well. Demand they move it. If they refuse, hire an attorney. It is not your burden to bear their septic tank problems, and they shouldn't even question it. If they do, then you both should be the ones to file a suit against the seller, and ask for attorney fees. <font color="black"> </font>
JayC
Veteran Member
Caseville is a nice little community. I helped a friend clean out an estate there at the beginning of July for an auction. It was pretty warm that day. The auction was an annual one in Port Hope. A nice tractor show is there, too.
ByronBob
Veteran Member
This is definately beyond what would we do or not do. The legality of it is in serious issue here. If the land is useless you might need to sue somebody to get out of the property. In any case someone is responsable for leading you outside the normal limits of liability. This smells well......... like sewage /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Jastak,
What a mess. I dodged a similar situation a few years ago. I have a common boundry with a neighbor. His house is not square and plumb to the lot. Its off by about 30 degrees. Why? He went and ripped down all of the survey flagging that showed the property line. Why? Who knows. I went at my own expense and had the line surveyed. If I had not done this their septic would have been on my land. Best couple hundred dollars I have spent. While you problem is not common it does happen.
When I got my septic permits, I have pulled three of them but that is a long story, I always knew where the lots lines where located. I showed the pins to the inspector and he went from there. Having said that I think its a reasonable person test. The septic inspector is not a surveyor so he relies on me the landowner to show the lines which I had very well marked and he could see the pins. But in the end he is taking my word for the location. So I think the inspector in you case would be hard to touch. The same goes to the installer. He is going to to put the location of the field onto the landowner which I think is fair.
So that leaves the seller in your case and maybe the homeowner. Get a lawyer quick before you do anything else. Given that the neighbors knew the septic field was on the wrong land the seller seems to have cooked her own goose. These could be criminal charges. But get a lawyer and go after her. She certainly should have known the lot lines and she could have had the lines redrawn before selling to you and this would be a moot point. But she did not.
Another thing to think about is how much does the other house's septic system impact your use of the land? In my state a well cannot be within 100 feet of any part of any septic system. So if you have a small lot 100 feet can really chew up your house siting. Even on our lots which are roughtly 700-800 feet by 300-350 feet, impacting 100' feet into another lot can really effect how the neighbors can locate a house, septic and well. Does your area have rules that can effect you this way?
Later,
Dan McCarty
What a mess. I dodged a similar situation a few years ago. I have a common boundry with a neighbor. His house is not square and plumb to the lot. Its off by about 30 degrees. Why? He went and ripped down all of the survey flagging that showed the property line. Why? Who knows. I went at my own expense and had the line surveyed. If I had not done this their septic would have been on my land. Best couple hundred dollars I have spent. While you problem is not common it does happen.
When I got my septic permits, I have pulled three of them but that is a long story, I always knew where the lots lines where located. I showed the pins to the inspector and he went from there. Having said that I think its a reasonable person test. The septic inspector is not a surveyor so he relies on me the landowner to show the lines which I had very well marked and he could see the pins. But in the end he is taking my word for the location. So I think the inspector in you case would be hard to touch. The same goes to the installer. He is going to to put the location of the field onto the landowner which I think is fair.
So that leaves the seller in your case and maybe the homeowner. Get a lawyer quick before you do anything else. Given that the neighbors knew the septic field was on the wrong land the seller seems to have cooked her own goose. These could be criminal charges. But get a lawyer and go after her. She certainly should have known the lot lines and she could have had the lines redrawn before selling to you and this would be a moot point. But she did not.
Another thing to think about is how much does the other house's septic system impact your use of the land? In my state a well cannot be within 100 feet of any part of any septic system. So if you have a small lot 100 feet can really chew up your house siting. Even on our lots which are roughtly 700-800 feet by 300-350 feet, impacting 100' feet into another lot can really effect how the neighbors can locate a house, septic and well. Does your area have rules that can effect you this way?
Later,
Dan McCarty
Junkman
Super Member
The well setback requirement is also in MA. I have a friend that located his well as close to the property line as legally possible so the neighbor couldn't put in a new septic system when his fails. The logic is that when the system fails and has to be replaced, the neighbor will not be able to put in the new requirement and will be forced to sell out to the him. The best part I left for last... the neighbors land is on the tip of a peninsula on a lake... he has no were to go even for a engineered system. The only thing that can fit onto the land is a tight tank...
