Severe Use

Highbeam · Apr 6, 2006

It all depends on if you are worried about the load on the front axle or worried about keeping the rear axle on the ground. In regards to loading the front axle, filled rear tires only increase the loading. In regards to keeping the rear axle on the ground, filled tires matter in a teeter totter scenario with the front axle as the fulcrum. In both cases a rear ballast on the 3ph matters.

BadDog · Apr 6, 2006

Statics & Dynamics 101:

Weight always points to the ground, that doesn't ever change until the tractor is moving... but the force on the fulcrum (technically known as a 'moment', which is just torque) changes dramatically when various loads are placed on the tractor, whether it's moving or not.

There are two fulcrums on a tractor (most of the time): front wheels, and rear wheels. Add another if you drop your FEL bucket on the ground and another if you drop your hoe stabilizers on the ground and another if you drop your hoe bucket on the ground.

Sometimes there is only one fulcrum (one or two wheels on the ground). You don't want to do the one-wheel trick too often, but the two wheel version is bound to happen to you with everyday use.

Spiffy · Apr 6, 2006

( Not while the rear wheels and the bucket are both in the air... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif in that position the load will increase as the front axle becomes the fulcrum.

As long as the wheels are on the ground the wheel weights do not exert any load on the axles front or rear /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif (or is that what you were saying? )

Not quite what I was saying, but actually does augment both my whimisical scenario and the larger one here. You are right, the entire weight of the tractor and bucket load solely on the front axel is the most weight you can put on it (without artificially loading it); I just added the whimsical scenario of the bucket then making contact with the ground and sharing some of the weight (true enough, that would be after eveything was pivoting on the front for a few scary seconds).

Actually my point is that if you load the bucket right until the tractor starts to tip, both the weight of the tractor and the bucket load are all on the front axel. Now if you add 1lb, 100lb, or 1000lb to the rear axel, so it won't tip, the same stress is still on the front, but 1000lb added weight will exert 999lb more [than 1lb added weight] through the rear tires to the ground - while the exact equivalant weight of the tractor and bucket load is still on the front axel. So what I was saying is that the tractor lifting from the ground, or having the same load not lift the rear because of wheelweights makes no difference to the front axel. Getting back to the whimsical side of this extreme scenario, with no weight being transferred to the ground, you can't go anywhere, so still less wear to the front end (not to mention the dynamic loads it doesn't have to deal with since you're stationary /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

JimR · Apr 6, 2006

( The backhoe itself IS enough counterweight to balance the FEL...

but... I don't always want the backhoe on when I'm moving in tight areas, such as stacking boulders for a retaining wall. )

BadDog,

We are talking about JimMorrissey and his tractor loader/backhoe here. Not everyone else and how they use thier machines.

JimMorrissey · Apr 7, 2006

It's good to discuss the various situations. People might be able to judge their use against others for comparison.

pat32rf · Apr 7, 2006

Due to the fact that the only level spot on our property is one little portion of my garage floor, I often find it handy to swing the hoe to the up-hill side as a counterbalance in some tight spots. Maybe I don't need to but it makes me feel better.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just travelling my driveway with a full FEL bucket requires 4wd without the hoe on the back(yes my tires are loaded) Pat

JimR · Apr 7, 2006

Your right Jim.

Here is my opinion for anyone that uses a FEL without weights off the 3PTH. Beware, you will encounter front end problems and a good chance of catching air with your back tires. Loaded rear tires do not reduce the front end weight, nor do rear wheel weights. They do however keep your tractor on the ground depending on the load in your FEL and the incline. The safest thing to do is to haul around a solid block of concrete, a BH or anything else you can think of to counterweight a loaded FEL.

JimMorrissey · Apr 7, 2006

Pat, I hadn't though of using the hoe as a side counterweight. I'll have to remember that one......Not too far, but a bit will definitely be helpful.

daTeacha · Apr 7, 2006

The local Deere dealer doesn't even order a tractor with FEL without a ballast box. Won't sell one that way, either, unless you can convince them you have a big counterweight at home looking for a tractor to latch onto.

slowzuki · Apr 7, 2006

Ok I'll make my pitch. On a compact, if you are taking "runs" at something to accomplish some task, you are overloading the machine.

If you use your loader a lot, the pins will wear out and you will develop cracks in the arms. Most newer loaders are better reinforced but even our old International 2250 loader, a well respected ag loader got cracks from dozing and too much back dragging.

If you are constantly popping your machine off the ground in everyday loader use and you have loaded tires or counterweight on, you will likely pop something in your front axle sooner or later. I leave my tires inflated such that at max loader capacity, I have to drive slow so I don't roll a tire off the rim. This reminds me not to have heavy boucing loads that can overload things.

I've noticed my front loader linkage is pretty sloppy with only 700 hrs on the machine and it has been well greased. We have the large material bucket on it and use it to move heaped buckets of stone and sand. It is right at the balance point with loaded tires and a 1500 lb snowblower 4ft off the 3pt.

I suspect I will replace the loader pins and bush's and the kingpin bushings sometime during its time with me.

Mostly the point of if you have to ram something or jerk something to make it move, you are likely abusing your machine.