Share pictures or your geothermal: plumbing

[Redneck in training]

Inside part of my outside loop was originally PVC but it started leaking after some time. Therefore I replaced it with copper. The Polyethylene pipe has a male NPT fused on end and copper union screwed on it. All inside loops are Oxygen barrier PEX while cold and hot water is regular PEX. All inside manifolds and fittings are Rehau. Manifolds for floor loops have flow meter and control valve for each loop making loop balancing easy.

 

[LD1]

Wonder why your PVC manifold started to leak?


All the ones I was seeing online were PVC as well. Have used pvc alot and never any leaks. This is a non pressure system also. But the good thing about being inside....easy to fix if anything leaks

 

[Redneck in training]

Wonder why your PVC manifold started to leak?


All the ones I was seeing online were PVC as well. Have used pvc alot and never any leaks. This is a non pressure system also. But the good thing about being inside....easy to fix if anything leaks

The guy who sold it to me recommended pressure 20 psig to prevent pump cavitation.

 

[Eric Salop]

....easy to fix if anything leaks

... unlike a leak in the ground loop. The first year ours was in it all worked perfectly, needing only a tiny amount of glycol to top it up. Then one day I noticed the header tank was almost empty. A couple of pints brought it back to half full. Two weeks later, same again. This time it stayed up for a few weeks and I was beginning to think it must have been some trapped air, then down it went again . For the next year I was topping up every couple of weeks.

All the joints were accessible and were checked often - no trace of anything leaking from any of them. When the weather was mild and we didn't need the pump so much, I shut off each pipe in turn for a couple of weeks at a time to determine where the leak was. Meanwhile both the installer and myself were searching for methods of how best to find or stop what was now obviously a hole somewhere.

Found a company that would do leak tracing, however their costs were almost the same as a new length of pipe and no guarantee they would find it. Considered pouring in gloop to try and make a seal, then decided to bite the bullet and put more pipe in the ground. This time I went against the advice of the heat pump manufacturer and used more loops of smaller diameter pipe. Took a bit of learning to find out how much pipe to put in to present the right flow resistance and thermal contact area, but got there eventually. We are now leak free again, with a spare length of pipe in the ground as insurance.

 

[MacLawn]

Sounds good, Eric. I had local geothermal man come a few months ago for estimate ($16 - $20,000!!), 3 ton to replace my current air/air heat pump. He also mentioned putting the manifold underground. Sounded good to me, but now I can see the benefit of having it inside, crawl space for my house. I haven't done it yet, waiting on my 13 years old Carrier heat pump to kick off first. I need to squeeze every penny out of it I can!

I just looked up Shropshire on iPad map. Nice looking area by what I can tell! Countryside anyway! One of my paternal ancestors came from a bit southwest of you, down in Wales.

Redneck in Train, having lived in Japan and used the split systems since '81 there, why would you use them instead of geothermal? Since no ducts, no heat/air in bathrooms, closets, etc. Our last house in Japan, we needed 5 of them, one for each room. House here would need 6! And, they are still just air/air heat pumps. Don't get me wrong, I love them, quiet, no leaking condensate issues because of design (hanging on wall, drain pipe straight out through wall to ground - love that!), and pretty efficient. Daggone it, I've about talked myself into getting those now! Oh me, anyway, TBN helps in my reasearch.

 

[Redneck in training]

Sounds good, Eric. I had local geothermal man come a few months ago for estimate ($16 - $20,000!!), 3 ton to replace my current air/air heat pump. He also mentioned putting the manifold underground. Sounded good to me, but now I can see the benefit of having it inside, crawl space for my house. I haven't done it yet, waiting on my 13 years old Carrier heat pump to kick off first. I need to squeeze every penny out of it I can!

I just looked up Shropshire on iPad map. Nice looking area by what I can tell! Countryside anyway! One of my paternal ancestors came from a bit southwest of you, down in Wales.

Redneck in Train, having lived in Japan and used the split systems since '81 there, why would you use them instead of geothermal? Since no ducts, no heat/air in bathrooms, closets, etc. Our last house in Japan, we needed 5 of them, one for each room. House here would need 6! And, they are still just air/air heat pumps. Don't get me wrong, I love them, quiet, no leaking condensate issues because of design (hanging on wall, drain pipe straight out through wall to ground - love that!), and pretty efficient. Daggone it, I've about talked myself into getting those now! Oh me, anyway, TBN helps in my reasearch.

1.) They are way cheaper than geothermal.
2.) They are reasonably efficient though less than geothermal.
3.) Then I would invest the difference in installation cost in large solar to keep the house powered up.
4.) There still will be money left.
5.) They provide large degree of redundancy.
6.) They are about as noisy as modern refrigerator.
7.) If you are just little handy you could install them by yourself and then have them only commissioned (evacuate and charge them) by the professional to have warranty.
8.) If you schedule them right you can get by with relatively small generator. The all have VFD so there is no current spike when they start.

I think they are way better and way more efficient now then 20 years ago. You don't need 6. They make them with multiple indoor units.
We paid 3800 for two zone Fujitsu Halcyon. But If I do it again I would install it by myself.

20 000 for 3 ton unit seems to me low unless the duct work is already in place.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Sounds good, Eric. I had local geothermal man come a few months ago for estimate ($16 - $20,000!!), 3 ton to replace my current air/air heat pump. He also mentioned putting the manifold underground. Sounded good to me, but now I can see the benefit of having it inside, crawl space for my house. I haven't done it yet, waiting on my 13 years old Carrier heat pump to kick off first. I need to squeeze every penny out of it I can!

I just looked up Shropshire on iPad map. Nice looking area by what I can tell! Countryside anyway! One of my paternal ancestors came from a bit southwest of you, down in Wales.

Redneck in Train, having lived in Japan and used the split systems since '81 there, why would you use them instead of geothermal? Since no ducts, no heat/air in bathrooms, closets, etc. Our last house in Japan, we needed 5 of them, one for each room. House here would need 6! And, they are still just air/air heat pumps. Don't get me wrong, I love them, quiet, no leaking condensate issues because of design (hanging on wall, drain pipe straight out through wall to ground - love that!), and pretty efficient. Daggone it, I've about talked myself into getting those now! Oh me, anyway, TBN helps in my reasearch.

I have two geothermal units. In our climate they are worth the initial investment. Where you are at heat pump is the way to go. My son installs the mini splits, hates them, they sound good, but are hard to repair and getting rid of the condensate is a pain. Up grade your current heat pump and stick with that! I have two loops and both manifolds are buried

 

[MacLawn]

Red, I've installed them in Japan. Like I said, I know them well from having used them so many years. Like anime, manga, karaoke, I knew mini splits way before America had them. I don't like the ones that have one outside unit and split into different inside units. I like the one-to-one kind better. I would need six. My house has good ducts, central heat pump since new.

Truckdiag, you suggest I stay with regular heat pump, eh? We get down into the teens a few days about every year, and I hate the cold. Without our wood stove, I'd freeze to death even in GA! I'm still leaning toward geothermal. A new air/air heat pump will cost me about $6-7,000, so take that off the $16,000 for geothermal, I'd be at about $10,000 net cost, less any state rebates, etc. Now I've about talked myself back into geothermal! Oh me. Well, I still need to squeeze every penny I can from this 2003 unit. It's going okay so far, but when it dies, I'll have to do something. Our house is so well insulated, my small office window unit gets us by in summer, wood stove in winter, so we can be comfortable while work is being done if I go geothermal. I'll let y'all know when that day comes.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Red, I've installed them in Japan. Like I said, I know them well from having used them so many years. Like anime, manga, karaoke, I knew mini splits way before America had them. I don't like the ones that have one outside unit and split into different inside units. I like the one-to-one kind better. I would need six. My house has good ducts, central heat pump since new.

Truckdiag, you suggest I stay with regular heat pump, eh? We get down into the teens a few days about every year, and I hate the cold. Without our wood stove, I'd freeze to death even in GA! I'm still leaning toward geothermal. A new air/air heat pump will cost me about $6-7,000, so take that off the $16,000 for geothermal, I'd be at about $10,000 net cost, less any state rebates, etc. Now I've about talked myself back into geothermal! Oh me. Well, I still need to squeeze every penny I can from this 2003 unit. It's going okay so far, but when it dies, I'll have to do something. Our house is so well insulated, my small office window unit gets us by in summer, wood stove in winter, so we can be comfortable while work is being done if I go geothermal. I'll let y'all know when that day comes.

yup, the heat pump will still work at below 32 just not very efficiently. The saving you get ground source verses air(that $10,000) i don't think you would get in two life times.

 

[techman]

yup, the heat pump will still work at below 32 just not very efficiently. The saving you get ground source verses air(that $10,000) i don't think you would get in two life times.

Not a very accurate statement. A modern air-air heat pump will still generate more heat in watts compared to the power draw it uses. Generally the break-even point is in the low teens. The problem in cold weather is not low efficiency, but a loss of capacity. The BTU capacity will drop the colder it gets, but the heat produced is still generated at relatively high efficiency. Since the capacity (heat output) drops as it gets progressively colder, and the building needs more heat as it gets colder, additional heat is required, usually electric supplemental heat. The temp where the heat pump can not keep up with the house loss at cold temps is called the "balance point".

Since I installed geo units, I have never had supplemental heat come on, even when it is 0 deg. Additionally the geo in the summer uses very little power since the water temp is close to the desired air temps. My yearly KWH dropped 30% with geo installed, despite another person in the house and all of the additional electric devices added over the years.

paul