Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks

   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #1  

DerekF

Bronze Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
50
Location
North East, Arizona
Tractor
Honda Recon, Husqvarna 440, Stihl MS180,
I have a shielding gas 75/25 bottle that I have had leak down to 0 PSI two times now by my LWS. I honestly maybe used 100PSI out of it the first time and maybe 50PSI the second time. I’m about 2 years into welding and probably 8 months (with very limited experience) into GMAW so this is new to me. The gas bottle probably sat almost unused for 5 months and went from about 1800 PSI to 0PSI with me only using it for a few small welds a handful of times. What should I do? LWS likely won’t do anything about it.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #2  
Some soapy water in a squirt bottle will show where the leaks are.

You don’t describe your process for shutting things off when you stop welding. That is a likely culprit.

My bottles get shut off, the regulator is backed off so their is no spring tension and, if it has a manual valve on the hose/hoses those are closed too. I’ve had bottles for years that still have plenty of gas in them.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Some soapy water in a squirt bottle will show where the leaks are.

You don’t describe your process for shutting things off when you stop welding. That is a likely culprit.

My bottles get shut off, the regulator is backed off so their is no spring tension and, if it has a manual valve on the hose/hoses those are closed too. I’ve had bottles for years that still have plenty of gas in them.

Same. My regulator is turned all the way down and my bottle is closed firmly. I felt that was
Implied. I know how to find the leak, the question is “is it normal for it to leak down after sitting there for a few months”.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #4  
The bottles with the valve closed should hold forever. But one of my family members is a distributor of them and a few of the tanks/valves do sometimes leak.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #5  
Never had one leak down like that. All I do is turn off the main valve on top the bottle each time after using.

Is this the SAME bottle each time ? In other words, when I run out, I simply swap bottles at the gas supply place.....do they re-fill the same one for you and hand it back ? I'd think the odds of getting two different bottles that leak down are pretty low.

I even have a spare bottle in the shop I bought in case I run out, don't have to stop in the middle of something and run to town and it has never leaked down either. My guess it goes couple years between exchanges.

IF this happened to you with different bottles, I'd switch places I bought gas if you can....we have 3 different places here to choose from, not counting way overpriced Tractor Supply.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Never had one leak down like that. All I do is turn off the main valve on top the bottle each time after using.

Is this the SAME bottle each time ? In other words, when I run out, I simply swap bottles at the gas supply place.....do they re-fill the same one for you and hand it back ? I'd think the odds of getting two different bottles that leak down are pretty low.

I even have a spare bottle in the shop I bought in case I run out, don't have to stop in the middle of something and run to town and it has never leaked down either. My guess it goes couple years between exchanges.

IF this happened to you with different bottles, I'd switch places I bought gas if you can....we have 3 different places here to choose from, not counting way overpriced Tractor Supply.

Yeah so there is actually a lot more to this story than my original post. I actually got quite screwed in this bottle deal. I bought a 180 CuFt (I believe this was the size) 75/25 bottle and a 80 CuFt Acetylene bottle, both out of date, from my neighbor for $150. I think that was a pretty good price.

I got to know the delivery guy for the mom and pop LWS from my regular job where I used to supervise the shipping and receiving department and I used to exchange bottles for our laboratory with him a couple times a week. We became pretty good friends and he told me he occasionally opened the store and ran it on Saturday’s and that he would waive the hydrostatic testing charge on the out of date bottles and give them to me for their discounted rate that they give their account customers.

The first time I went in there he went back on his word and charge me for the hydrostatic testing on one of the bottles, for some reason he thought the other was in date (I’m confident it wasn’t) and didn’t charge me for it. So that was the first bad deal. He exchanged my out of date bottles for the ones I have now because they are in date and we’re full. He did give me the discount on the shielding gas only. Did save me about $20 there. Then screwed me because he gave me a 150
CuFt bottle. I don’t know the exact sizes but there is no doubt that the bottle he gave me was shorter, but just as big around, and because I was so new to it, I didn’t realize it at the time. The way I realized it was that when I strapped it to the cart I have to hold the bottles, I noticed it was shorter on the cart than the bottle I gave him. I looked a picture I took of the bottle I gave him and sure enough they are the same diameter but the one I was given I’d like 6” shorter.

Now when I got this bottle exchanged I didn’t have my MIG unit yet. Only the flux core machine I had before by the time I bought my gauge and my MIG machine I plugged my gauge in after sitting about 2 or 3 months it was only sitting at 300PSI. Where I read it was supposed to beat something like 2200 PSI. At this point I had changed jobs at my work to a different department and went to night shift so I no longer saw him. I caught him on the way in one day and told him the bottle he gave me had a leak. I told him the first time I plugged my gauge into the bottle it only read 300PSI. His response was “that is impossible”. He told me to come in that Saturday because he was running the store and he would refill me. When I got there he was giving me the run around the felt like he was being dishonest with his boss trying to help me out.

I told him I didn’t ask for any of his favors, I just had questions about the bottles I bought and he offered to help me out. The I ended up with a raw deal of having a smaller bottle than the one I originally brought him, and the gas I paid for leaked out of the bottle before I even got to use it. He reluctantly refilled my bottle for free. But only to 1700 or 1800PSI. I used about 50PSI worth that day and got really busy with school for months and didn’t touch it. During winter break I opened up the tank and had literally 0PSI in it.

I left guy as friends, but I’m definitely ready to take my business to Praxair. They are closer and cheaper anyway. Of course through my job I had a bad experience with these guys giving us a leaky liquid Co2 tank that they wouldn’t replace with out charging us first too. Seems like gas suppliers is one business where it’s ok to screw the customer.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #7  
Some soapy water in a squirt bottle will show where the leaks are.

You don’t describe your process for shutting things off when you stop welding. That is a likely culprit.

My bottles get shut off, the regulator is backed off so their is no spring tension and, if it has a manual valve on the hose/hoses those are closed too. I’ve had bottles for years that still have plenty of gas in them.

^^^^Ditto!
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #8  
If you have an air compressor you can blow 50-100# of air into the tank and quickly close the valve. Soap check for leaks. You will likely find that the gland in the valve has a leak. If it does, you can ask for gland parts at a welding supply. If they wont give them to you then you will have to spring for a new valve. I know the pain of losing the contents of a tank of gas.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #9  
Same. My regulator is turned all the way down and my bottle is closed firmly. I felt that was
Implied. I know how to find the leak, the question is “is it normal for it to leak down after sitting there for a few months”.

That is abnormal. I’ve had bottles for 15-20 years that showed no perceptible leaking.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #10  
Lick your wounds and move on to another supplier. If you are lucky they will accept your current bottles but don't be surprised if they won't take them in exchange.

I had a similar experience with a supplier giving me a smaller bottle then not wanting to take it back in exchange and charging me extra to get the size I originally took in. I'm using a different supplier now.

I had also been getting discounts and special treatment for years due to my association through work so I was ahead of the game. As people moved on and retired from my usual supplier all that evaporated and prices escalated beyond what I could get from one of their competitors.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #11  
You are working with wrong gas dealer..... Quality bottles with good valves don't leak, and if you have bottle that is leaking most quality LWS will replace bottle and the take leaking bottle out of service....

All my bottles sit for weeks, months or a year of two without valves leaking... Because my LWS cares...

All my bottle are always exchanges and never have i been hit with hydrostatic test charge...

If fellow you are dealing with keeps reneging on any compensation, just walk away, it won't get any better....

When I went in to get my shield gas bottle I intended to purchase a 125 cu-ft bottle... Did transaction at front counter, and went to get bottle off gas dock, dock jock said hmmm all out if 125's here take a 175.... Been exchanging and paying for 175 fill ever since and never a question asked...

Dale
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Lick your wounds and move on to another supplier. If you are lucky they will accept your current bottles but don't be surprised if they won't take them in exchange.

I had a similar experience with a supplier giving me a smaller bottle then not wanting to take it back in exchange and charging me extra to get the size I originally took in. I'm using a different supplier now.

I had also been getting discounts and special treatment for years due to my association through work so I was ahead of the game. As people moved on and retired from my usual supplier all that evaporated and prices escalated beyond what I could get from one of their competitors.

Likely what I am going to do. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks
  • Thread Starter
#13  
You are working with wrong gas dealer..... Quality bottles with good valves don't leak, and if you have bottle that is leaking most quality LWS will replace bottle and the take leaking bottle out of service....

All my bottles sit for weeks, months or a year of two without valves leaking... Because my LWS cares...

All my bottle are always exchanges and never have i been hit with hydrostatic test charge...

If fellow you are dealing with keeps reneging on any compensation, just walk away, it won't get any better....

When I went in to get my shield gas bottle I intended to purchase a 125 cu-ft bottle... Did transaction at front counter, and went to get bottle off gas dock, dock jock said hmmm all out if 125's here take a 175.... Been exchanging and paying for 175 fill ever since and never a question asked...

Dale

Nice, sounds like you found a good one. I live in a very rural area and my choices are limited. Also, I have to drive 30 minutes to the next town over for either of the suppliers. And by either, I mean two, so I don't have a lot of options.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #14  
Nice, sounds like you found a good one. I live in a very rural area and my choices are limited. Also, I have to drive 30 minutes to the next town over for either of the suppliers. And by either, I mean two, so I don't have a lot of options.

My closest reasonable gas dealer is 37 miles away..... Local hardware store has bottles (usually) but either they are out of size I want or stupid clerk can not seem to figure out about exchanges ...

Yeah its hassle but for piece of mind, I take the trip... But I usually combine it with going to steel suppliers, tractor/farm store and even a grab a burger at favorite burger joint...

Dale
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #15  
I swapped out acetylene and oxygen tanks yesterday that were 13 years old, and never leaked. I had returned to the shop that sold them to me (a relatively major player in the PNW), and they verified that I owned the tanks. They never examined the tanks for test dates.

I did have a leaky valve on one of my two 125 gallon propane tanks which were manifolded together. I was irked they sold me a used tank when I ordered the second tank for installation, and now know I should have sent it back. I shut one off for earthquakes in case they separate, and noticed that the tank that was turned off dropped to the same level as the other tank. I swapped the primary/secondary function, but learned a lesson about older tank valves.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #16  
It's annoying but you can buy plugs for the outlet of the gas cylinders. You would have to remove your regulator each time but if thank's valve is leaking internally a plug would stop it. If it's leaking around the threads on the end of the cylinder I would have the new gas supplier deal with it. Tightening it might do it but if it's already over tight then it could make it worse. Ideally swapping the bottle would be best.

I do agree with the others, swap to a different supplier. I often don't go through gas quick enough and even though I own my bottle the company I deal with doesn't care if it needs to be tested again. They just swap them no questions asked. They are often too quick and I don't get a good chance to look at all the welding equipment I need, lol.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #17  
:thumbdown:Darn. Sounds like you were dealing with :mad:AIRGAS, A little more here , some more theres then oh yea you owe us :banghead:more. Then when you call them on it saying it cost half that 5 years back they try to blame it on 911, security, documentation :thumbdown:requirements. They have more excuses than a convict.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #19  
Not shielded gas but Oxy/Acetylene tanks.
The fillers seem to use a hi powered hammer gun to close/fuse the valves so much so that the only way to open the Oxygen is vice grips but then can't close it.
Results in 10-20 mins of welding and a week later tank is empty!
(note that's on 'porta tank' kits.)

I'll add that my minimal need of Ox/Acc is so minimal that I refuse to sign a contract for a set of tanks.
What with grinder disks a propane Ox/Acc is now usually a thing of the past.
Only remaining need is heating frozen rusted studs/bolts and even that often can be surmounted.
 
   / Shielding Gas Bottle Leaks #20  
Here in Canada we are very fortunate. Air Liquide and Airgas were always the worst to deal with. A few years back AL bought out Airgas.

It’s become a real timesaver for me. Now I only have to go to ONE location instead of two to get ****ed.

Edit. I’m pretty certain AL owns Airgas in the US as well.
 

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