Tiller Should I buy a tiller?

Gary_in_Indiana · May 30, 2003

Re: Scale

 As Trev said, you can use a tiller to effectively till sod into the soil...It typically takes two to three passes to end up with something that looks like garden soil with a lot of mulch in it 

Does the multiple pass approach you describe eliminate the dreaded "turf turds" and the need to deal with them?

MLB · May 30, 2003

let me make clear

what I'm talking about. You're always going to have to make multiple passes to bust and turn existing turf. What is left LOOKS good enough to most folks. Some might smooth and seed it as it sits. (anyone /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If however you work on residential high end lawns it must all be raked perfectly smooth. In that situation there will be a piece the size of your fingernail sticking up out of an otherwise perfectly smoothed and level area. You flick the rake and grab it with one tooth and pull, inevitably it will yield a football (maybe a slight exageration) size "turf turd" (roots and top growth) that leaves a void that must now be filled or raked even from the surrounding area. Repeat endlessly for about an hour per 2k sq'. Totally sucks.
And yes they will sprout endlessly if not sprayed and no they won't decompose any time soon. I've seen TT's that have been buried for 2 seasons looking totally intact.
SO, maybe my work requirements don't jibe with yours (I know they wouldn't on my own property /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif But don't overestimate the value of tilling turf. Is always my last option.
Sod cutter first, then till.
Or slit seed through existing turf.
Anything but tilling /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
But again, maybe a 3pt tiller does a better job of burying than a good rear tine walker.

Gary_in_Indiana · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

About the only thing that I was hoping to do was to 'grind up' the existing sod (for lack of a better term) so that I could then easily use either my box blade or FEL to contour some areas to redirect drainage away from a building. I'm sure when the building was built the land contoured that way but with all of the horse manure that just got pushed outside over the years the building is now in somewhat of a low area.

As far as preparing it for seeding, etc., goes, I wasn't even concerned about that. It's rough now and I can live with rough. I drive trucks and the tractor over it now with no concerns. It's not a 'lawn' or anything like that. I just didn't want to have to fight sod or end up with a mountain of it.

Mrwurm · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

( I just didn't want to have to fight sod or end up with a mountain of it. )

Good points Gary, and my sentiments exactly. I have an area that is approximately half an acre that is so bumpy that I bounce off the seat of my mower when I try to cut it. I want to grind it up and then smooth it with my landscape rake (with gauge wheels). I sure don't want to end up with a big pile of sod that I need to get rid of.
Many of the posts here have mentioned that the sod will grow back. Hooray!, thats just what I want. My lawn is a mixture of 80% weeds, 20% grassy stuff. If it is green it is welcome. The good news for me is that the local rental place has at least two tillers to rent. (price unknown)
The bottom line.... If I rent a tiller, tear up the area, smooth it with rake, weeds grow back, I can't possible make it any worse than it is now.
I may wake till August, though. The whole area becomes dry, burnt, and barren. It will be quite dusty, but should till up nicely.

Chuck52 · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

I sure can't dispute MLB's experience with high end lawns, but I do know that my strawberry bed was a grassy mess last fall and now all I dig up is decent dirt there. What I originally tilled under had been hay field. I assume it's a fescue of some type. The same grass is about four feet high in an area I hope to get cut as hay. The first year I tilled it under, last spring, I did 3-4 passes because I was late getting the bed ready for the strawberries. It was, as I said, like garden soil with a lot of mulch tilled in. I don't recall having to dig out TT's when putting in the plants. Now, unfortunately for me, lots of that finely divided grass was apparently still viable, perhaps mainly the roots, and it came back with a vegeance and basically overwhelmed my strawberries. So, last fall I killed the whole area with RoundUp, including the few pathetic strawberries (though they seem RoundUp resistant), and tilled it under again. Maybe 3-4 passes. This year I'm getting much less grass back and it's about what I'd expect from remaining seeds. All this may be somewhat dependant on soil type and weather and such. I have a fairly rich black clay/loam stuff. What I till in seems to decompose pretty well in one season. YMMV.

Chuck

MLB · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

I think the biggest determiner of decomposition rate is the soil itself. All the lawns I work on are heavily fertilized(over fertilized) and bombarded with heavy pesticide use. 5 and 6 or even 7 app commercial lawn care programs. BLAH! The soil is basically sterile in terms of bacterial activity and earthworms, the two main vehicles of decomposition. I think I could bury a banana peel and it'd still be there next year /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Huge variations, I didn't think about, sorry. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Bird · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

( I think the biggest determiner of decomposition rate is the soil itself )

I sure don't know enough about chemistry to know, but that sounds good to me. I find these threads about composting and breaking through sod interesting, but I guess I just did things a bit differently from most. When I bought my place in the country, I just fenced off a part of the pasture for a garden. It was mostly coastal bermuda, but quite a bit of weeds, too. I never applied any chemicals of any kind; no fertilizer, no herbicides, and no insecticides, and I never took the time and trouble to "compost". I just tilled it with my PTO powered tiller. But any leaves we raked up, roots, stems, hulls, or whatever vegetation we had from cleaning vegetables, all the wood chips from a wide variety of brush run through the chipper/shredder, some cow manure and some rabbit manure were all just thrown into the garden. At the end of the season, I mowed the vegetable plants that were left with the brush hog and left the clippings where they lay. I guess the main thing I did differently was that I not only tilled all that in, but as soon as it was dry enough after each rain, I tilled it again year round. When I had the B7100, I spaced the rows far enough apart to till between them after every rain, then when I got the B2710, I moved the rows closer together and just used the cultivator plow. And I never used a sprinkler to water the garden; just hand watered by walking up and down the rows. So in other words, I composted in place and was amazed at how quickly even good sized wood chips simply disappeared.

Gary_in_Indiana · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

Well, if I gather everything I've read here it seems like I sould till this are three or four times to diminish the size of the 'turf turds' to a manageable level then use my box blade to contour it the way I want it and then maybe even till it one last time. Is that about right?

I'm not interested in making a garden or a high end lawn out of this (or even a low end lawn, for that matter). I'm more the "if it's green I"m happy" type. There may come a day before I die I'll be interested in turning all of this eleven acres into a lawn (of course, by then I'll probably need a hydraulic lift to get me up on the tractor and a Chalkley oxygen tank). Right now I'm just trying to get enough of a handle on it that I can keep the barn dry and eventually convert from using a rotary cutter on everything to being able to use my finish mower more and more.

One last question here; Given what I'm looking to do, would there be any advantage to mowing this area before I till it?

40Kchicks · May 31, 2003

Re: let me make clear

Gary
The finer you can make the organics (clipping) the better your tiller will work. I would say kill it or mow it as close as possible. The grass seed farmers in our area of Oregon flail the fields after taking the seed and straw off. The flail chops the remaining straw into tiny pieces right at ground level.

Eric