sizing tractors/implements

jimg · Feb 20, 2004

I'm trying to understand how much tractor and implement is needed for a certain acreage and job. For instance, say I have a 100 acre of hay field. While I could process the entire acreage at once it would require a substantial investment in very large (or highly specialized) machinery. I think this approach is wrong for a couple reasons (at least). First, the machinery might be too big for other chores and, due to high cost, I could probably only afford one machine which would be a single point of failure. A better strategy might be to use a couple smaller tractors w/ some implement duplication and process the 100 acres in smaller parcels (25 acre, 50 acre?). Still, theres the question of how fast should I figure on mowing and baling each parcel? In the case of mowing you want to get it done but how fast (acres/hr)? How about baling (small sqs), or raking or tedding? Then theres also the question of how does the machinery scale to larger or smaller acreages. What do you think?

In my research so far I've discover a large body of writing which discusses sizing in broad terms but never anything that gives concrete guidelines or rules of thumb. I suppose they're figuring you have enough prior knowledge to figure it out. Perhaps the subject is just too broad.

As for mowing it was interesting to see how fast disc mower/conditioners can be run. In practice I find it hard to believe anyone is running at speeds close to what the tractor and mower are capable of. Even a flat 'smooth' field w/o obstructions is going to have substantial unevenness. In a tractor attached to a heavy mower this must be quite a ride! I've not seen many of these ideal fields in my area. Practically speaking what should you count on for field speed? This, of course, ties in w/ my original question on sizing.

HayDR · Feb 21, 2004

jimg,
80% of our customers are just like you. They usually have another job or have either retirement or other income outside the farm and own 100 acres or less. You have a world of choices. You just have to set a budget on your investment in equipment.
You can do it all with one tractor if needed but it is unlikely that you want to cut the grass in the yard with a 40-60 HP utility size tractor.
Drum Mowers, disc mowers and disc mower conditioners can mow up to 15 MPH. That is fast for a hayfield. Even with the small drum mowers you can mow 4-5 acres an hour. V-Rakes rake 10-20 acres an hour.
Small Drum mowers- $1,800 - $4,000- 20-60 HP
Disc mowers (3 Point)- $3,000- $8,000- 32-80 HP
Discbines- $12,000- $30,000- 70-120 HP
V-Rakes- $1,800- 7,000 - 15-60 HP
New Utility Tractor - 40-60 HP $9,500- $40,000
Used Utility Tractor - 40-60 HP $2,500- $25,000
New Square baler- $10,000- $20,000
Used Square baler- $500- $8,000
New Round Baler- $10,000- $20,000
Used Round Baler- $500- $10,000

jimg · Feb 21, 2004

Hi Mark,
Thanx very much. Is the message then it really depends on how much you have to spend or want to spend? I'm trying to plan for efficiency and having too much (or little) machine/implements is not profitable.

The drum mowers look interesting from a HP point of view but I dont know anyone who uses them. Here its either sickle or disc but mostly sickle. Disc mowers seem to be expensive given you can rarely run them at the ground speed they're capable of. It seems as though you're spending money for something you cant utilize.

Maybe its simplistic but it seems as though there should be some rules of thumb given acreage and job as to how much machine you need to do the job efficiently.

jimg

HayDR · Feb 21, 2004

jimg,
The drum and disc mowers will mow hay when the grass is wet, where the sickle mowers have a very hard time mowing hay with dew on it. This means that with a drum or a disc mower you can mow it the late evening, at night, or early in the morning and you will not have to wait for the grass to dry to mow it. You will gain a day's curing time with the disc and drum mower while you are laboring in the heat of the day with the sicklebar mower. The drum and disc mower cut grass in the same way.
Most of our farmers with 50 acres or less own a tractor, drum or disc mower, & a rake. They pay a custom operator to bale their hay. We do have a good many smaller farmers purchasing new and use 4'x5' balers like the Vermeer Rebel.

cowboydoc · Feb 21, 2004

Have you ever mowed 100 acres of hay? Even with the bigger equipment it takes ALOT of time. When it's time to make hay it's time to make hay. It's hard enough to get one window of opportunity to make hay much less three or four windows. Personally I think you're making a mistake trying to do that much hay with too little equipment. Even under ideal conditions and nice fields you can't go much more than 5 - 7 mph without tearing up your equipment, and things are never ideal even with brand new equipment and newly planted fields. Then it all depends on how wide your equipment is. Under ideal conditions I can usually mow 5-6 acres/hour with a 13' mower conditioner. Baling goes faster if you've got a good big baler. With the smaller balers you are constantly stopping to make bales and you can't rake as much hay into the windrow.

Personally I would go with at least a mower conditioner that is 9' wide. With that you are going to be 3-5 acres/hour mowing if everything goes well. Then I would do at least 5x5 bales. 4x5 wouldn't be too bad. If you get a disc mower conditioner you will need more hp than a sickle mower conditioner. With a disc conditioner you will need around 80-90 hp and probably 10 hp less with a the sickle. A smaller baler like a 4x5 or 5x5 you will need about 70 pto hp.

If you're thinking of getting two tractors I would get a big tractor and a little tractor. You can get a good 4020 for $8-10k that is 96 hp. A good cab 4430 with 130 hp you can get for $11-15k depending on the price. I'm sure there are other good deals on other brands too. I just like the JD. The older internationals usually go the cheapest at sales. You can get into some nice low hour cab tractors that are in the 25 year old range for around $10k. With this you can pretty much get as big of a mower conditioner as you need or baler. A good mower conditioner in the 9-13' range can be had for $7-15k. A good 10 year old 535 baler; makes bales from 3' - 6', can be had for around $10k. If you wanted to go used then you could get into a pretty nice haying outfit for $25-30k and not be underpowered and be able to do your whole field all at once.

HayDR · Feb 21, 2004

"A smaller baler like a 4x5 or 5x5 you will need about 70 pto hp." Coyboydoc 
We have been down this road many times before and you are not reading the MFG data on the minimum HP needed for 4' x 5' balers.
 Vermeer 5400 Rebel- 40 HP min. 
 NH 730- 40 HP 
 JD 457- 55 HP min.
 New Idea 6244- 45 HP min. 
Hesston 745- 45 HP mn. 
We have many customers that round bale hay with a 2040 JD, MF240, 3930 Ford, 510 Long, 2155 JD, & etc.

JerryG · Feb 21, 2004

We have used a 4x5 Hesston with a Ford 3930 and it did a fine job. The land that we use it on is not all flat either.

jimg · Feb 21, 2004

Have I ever done 100 acres of hay? Nope, not even close. This is why Im asking. However, thats only peripheral to my question. Acres are only material in that they exist somewhere on a scale...a magnitude that requires some equipment mix given a certain job. Maybe it cant be wrapped so neatly but I'd like to try as best I can. For example, given an acreage being mowed how many acres/hr should you shoot for? How many tons/hr when you're baling?

"Under ideal conditions I can usually mow 5-6 acres/hour with a 13' mower conditioner. "
So, how many acres are you working? You must have gone thru some decision making process that concluded a 13' mower was most efficient for your operation. What was that process?

As for baling Im going small sqs. Round bales are nearly impossible to sell here. So, while I wont be stopping it will be slower than making large rounds.

Thanx for taking the time to write all this down. It was really helpful. Thanx!

cowboydoc · Feb 21, 2004

Yep and like I've said many times I firmly believe you are much better off with more hp. You know I can do surgery in the stall of my barn too but do you really want to have your knee operated on there? There's a minimum standard and then there's doing the job right. I don't care to be one of the statistics in the second leading cause of accidents, farming!