Small MIGs Really any difference?

g42guy · Oct 27, 2004

All the top brands (and then some) make a small 110V wire feed.

Is there really any difference between a Hobart/Miller/Lincoln? Or should a guy just find the best price.

I will be learning to weld and (at this time) don't have a need for heavy duty. Need to do some craft type stuff and small repairs for now. MAYBE some stuff up to 3/16-1/4" tops. If I could afford a 220V model I would one, BUT I CAN'T. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

So I thought I would get a small unit, learn how to weld, then (if needed) move up to a larger unit in a few years.

So are there any difference in the small machines, or is it kinda like tractor colors (find one you like and stick with it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Thanks
Guy

MMM · Oct 27, 2004

I'd get one of the big 3. You'll be looking to get rid of it sooner than you think and you might get half your money back on a popular brand. Shop arounf and you might find an off brand 220v for same price as popular 110v. Pay attention to duty cycle and cooling when shopping.

lynxpilot · Oct 27, 2004

I'd ask HERE . Lots of members on this site who endorse either brand. Hobart has a really good BBS too, but you'll definitely get the Miller/Hobart slant there.

My MIG is pretty large and sophisticated and I haven't used a 110v, so I'm no expert on comparing those models, but from everything I've seen on various BBS's, I get the impression that the Lincoln SP-125 Plus is the winner in this category for a multitude of reasons.

All I'd say after that is that if you use a small machine like that, there's a good possibility that you could get really nice 'looking' welds with poor fusion and little penetration. The folks that seem the happiest with a 110v are generally those doing auto body and other low-current sheet metal work. If that's all you do, one of these makes a lot of sense and most of them can do the job quite nicely. If you're looking at 1/4" or better and/or at structural welds and think you can just weld multipass or run a large puddle with a 110v, then you are setting yourself up.

Another relatively inexpensive alternative is oxy/fuel. It's very versatile and can produce top quality welds on all thicknesses with the least investment. Less than $1000 can get you a VERY nice torch/cutting/heating outfit (mine's a Victor Journeyman) and cylinders of oxygen and acetylene. For special welds like stainless and aluminum with oxy/acet, all you need is some flux. It's also a good teaching tool for all of the other styles of welding.

Good luck and be safe.

Dave

kuby · Oct 28, 2004

I have used big ones and now have a small 110 miller and it's ok for under 3/16 but thats it. A 110 will treat you good but save up for another month or two and go as big as you can go.
good luck

bobodu · Oct 28, 2004

Our maintenance shop is now without a MIG because the guy that owns it decided that he wanted to take it home for his new garage.The *****!! Geeeezz...we only had it for eight years or so.My boss has one of those lil 120v. machines and I borrowed it to weld up a bit of 11 gauge square tube.I tried and tried...won't penetrate for squat...ended up taking the rear end off the tractor ,hauling it down to the shop and making some ugly welds with old wet sticks and the arc.Like has been said...save up,shop around for something used,sell a child or quit smoking and drinking! Buy something that you can use Tuesday. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

MadReferee · Oct 28, 2004

If you go with a 110v unit you will be limited to 3/16" or less thickness for good welds. The Hobart/Miller/Lincoln discussions can get as heated as Kubota/NH/JD. However, although Hobart and Miller are made by the same company and on the same production line they do have differences sort of like a full featured vs value tractor.

For example, a Miller unit that appears identical to a Hobart unit will have a few more features (adjustments) and typically a wire feed drive that uses metal parts instead of plastic.

Keep in mind that when you look at the 110v units that some wire feed units do not have the capability to use shielding gas. They use flux core wire. A true mig machine will have shielding gas capability and can be used with solid core wire or flux core wire.

The Hobart/Miller welding forums contain a wealth of info and despite the forum title are not brand specific. All makes and types are surprisingly discussed objectively.

wroughtn_harv · Oct 28, 2004

Add my name to the list of those suggesting saving a little longer and buying up to a two twenty if possible. I have an older Lincoln 130 amp suitcase that's two twenty volt. (It's been replaced by the 175 without any obvious changes I can see.)

It not only welds circles around the one ten models. It does it with ease, well worth the price difference.

mark777 · Oct 28, 2004

Like many have said, there is a big difference in 110v and 220 including the duty cycle. You will outgrow the little mig pretty fast, especially if you have used a bigger mig.

I have owned a Marquette, Solar and now a Miller 215. The latest 215 Miller has the extra portal for gas and the spooler gun for aluminum. Plus you can run 6 to 30 lbs of wire, which, price wise, makes it very efficient, as you will find the small rolls of wire for the 110 units are very expensive.

BTW It's been very difficult for me to go back to stick as I can accompolish everything with as good results with the mig.

Mark

Nasty135 · Oct 28, 2004

g42guy, I had the opportunity to use a 220volt miller with argon gas,Honestly it was almost fool proof with decent welds and good penitration ,but for my home unit (century??)110volt unit it works but is slooooow! I would almost rather gas weld and as said before 3/16 is about it .... but for most home stuff at least for me 3/16 is totally adequate...just another 2 cents worth /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

chim · Oct 28, 2004

I went through this myself about a year ago. Up until then, I had access to an old stick welder. After asking a lot of questions, I settled on a Millermatic MM175 and a tank of mixed shielding gas. It has been a real pleasure to use, especially with the gas (lot less spatter to put up with than the flux core wire). The next purchase was an auto-darkening hood. I'm in heaven.............chim

CTyler · Oct 28, 2004

I've had a Craftsman 90 amp mig welder for about 12 years or so. Welds 3/16 just fine 1/4 is pushing it and is a lot of prep work and wait time due to the duty cycle. Not worth it for 1/4. I bought it primarily for sheet metal/body work.

I would go with one of the big three though. Try to use them first if you can. On the Craftsman, it had a VERY narrow sweet spot. So you had to dial it in perfect and make sure it was clean clean clean.

A few months ago I bought a Miller 251 cause I got tired of paying to have bigger stuff welded up. MAN is this thing easy to weld with!! Easy to change the bead width and penatration.
What a machine! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

g42guy · Oct 28, 2004

Chim
Can you go up to 1/4" steal with yours??

Guy

MadReferee · Oct 28, 2004

I have a MM175 and weld 1/4" tubing and 3/8" flat bar all the time. The 1/4" can be done in 1 pass while I usually do multiple passes on the 3/8" depending on the application. I can successfully weld up to 5/8" plate using multiple passes.

I have also built several 3pt attachments (landscape rake, dethatcher, carry all, and others) and have yet to have a weld break or crack. It's all in the technique and takes some practice but the MM175 is definately up to it.

EastTexFrank · Oct 28, 2004

There's lots of good advice here. Let me say that was in exactly the same position as you just over a year ago. I got a 110v Lincoln Weld-pac 100. It uses .035 flux-core wire (no gas) and it did just fine on all the light stuff that I used it for and I could take it anywhere (at the farm) to work, unlike a 220v machine. Like I said, it did just great until I needed to put a new deck on an old shredder. Now that was hard work for the little machine, and for me, because of the 20% duty cycle and the 3/16"(?) sheet I used but we got it done. Right after that though, I bought a Hobart Stickmate (220v) and wish that I'd had it for the shredder job. It would have been so much quicker and easier. A few months ago I had the opportunity to play with a friend's big, gas shielded MIG and Oh My Lord, what a difference. After learning to weld with the little MIG and the stick, welding with that bigger MIG was so much easier and the welds were probably the prettiest I've ever made.
So, in answer to your question, for what you say you have to do, probably any of the brands in 100 - 125 amps would suit your needs. Flux core is just fine but gas is probably better if you want to mess with it or all your welding is going to be done inside. Personally, I find flux core to be more convenient although messier with more grinding and clean-up. I will warn you though that once you start, it won't be long before you are yearning for a bigger machine.

One other thing. As someone who is just beginning, get an auto darkening helmet. They're getting cheaper all the time. I first looked through one belonging to Jim Inman at the Texas bridge building get-together and went straight home and got one. They're magic. You won't believe how much easier it'll make things.

g42guy · Oct 28, 2004

THANKS for all the great replies. I think I can see a trend here and knowing myself I think I would fall into the trend (needing a larger machine once I start getting into projects). It's like when I bought my Kubota, everyone told me to get the loader. I didn't NEED a loader I told myself... six month later I bought a loader and have used it close to at least once a week every since.

After a little research here and the other sites, I'm leaning toward a Lincoln SP-175 Plus. I would need to have a 220 wired up out in the shop. Where can I find some info on that?

Anyway, keep the info coming!

Guy

shadled · Oct 28, 2004

I have a Lincoln Pro Mig 135. I made my toothbar and fabed my snow plow mount on my 1977 dodge.. I have no problem welding 1/4" steel. However I do need to use gasless wire to weld 1/4" steel. Which is not that big of a deal, just splatters a little more..

Jim_in_Omaha · Oct 28, 2004

I have a 135 Millermatic. I has the infinite voltage control. I believe the Hobart version may not. Thin stuff it works wonderful. Shop around and you can find either one for a good price. I recommend getting the large gas cylinder if your going to use gas. Exchanges are not that much more than that midget cylinder here.

My 2 paso's worth is this: Unless your wanting to take it to other places (where 120v comes in real handy) get the 220v. It just ain't that much more in the long run. On ebay I see that the Hobart 180 is about the price of a Millermatic 135. And the Miller 175 is around 85 more than the 135.
Jim

EastTexFrank · Oct 29, 2004

( I would need to have a 220 wired up out in the shop )

That is one of the "problems" with bigger machines and was part of the reasoning behind my getting the little 110v MIG in the first place. I have 220v at the shop but not at the farm. With "Little MIG" I can take it over there, plug it in and I'm ready to go. Otherwise, I have to load up whatever needs fixing and bring it back to the shop at the house if I'm going to use the 220v stick machine. Guess I'm just lazy but that's a lot more work, especially if it's only for a 10 minute "stick it back together" job. Transportability is a minor consideration but still something worth thinking about.

I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't hurt to have 2 machines. Man, it's easy to spend somebody else's money. Having said all that, I think if I was doing it all again, I'd probably be looking at the same type of machine that you are, the Lincoln 175 looks pretty good. I've never used one but I'm sure some of the more experienced welder here will be able to tell you.

chim · Oct 29, 2004

Like the others said, 1/4" is done handily. I lucked into a 50+ foot piece of 10/3 SO cord. When I installed the 220v outlet in my garage, I kept it right inside the one overhed door. That gives me more than enough "leash" to get all round a large paved area outside the garage.

A 2-pole 30 amp breaker and #10 copper to the receptacle I installed does the job. I did use a 50 amp plug and receptacle, because I look at that as the weakest link - a connection that relies only on the tension of the blades (no bolts, screws or wirenuts).....................chim

LeRoi · Oct 30, 2004

No one on the board has mentioned Daytona Mig , so heres my plug.
I bought one of their small 110 V mig only machines to learn how to weld. I also bought an auto darkening helmet.
Mine is about 6 years old and has never failed to provide good service, keeping in mind the limitations of any 110V welding machine, it's hard to beat. Along with everyone else that uses one, I also love the auto dark helmet.
Leroy