Comparison Smallest compact/biggest subcompact??

[Dirk Digger]

I know I can get by with a subcompact and I may yet go with one of them. But my lot gets pretty gnarly every year with saplings trying to take over and weeds well over 3ft tall. Like I said, it chokes my Gravely 20G which is a heavy built, no slouch of a garden tractor. Although it has a regular mowing deck on it, so it's not optimum there. But I also have an old school Gravely C4 (7-1/2hp) walk behind brush mower (30" deck). That one is capable of bush hogging it, but man it's slow going. I want that brute extra power so I can loaf through it with a 4' or maybe 5' bush hog. A 30hp tractor would easily provide the necessary power with no struggle at all. I like that. Plus it would provide extra power to handle any bigger jobs that may come my way I can't foresee right now. One thing that I can foresee though is that I will be building my own home in about 7 years time or so. When that time comes, the added power may come in handy.

So far I've looked at the Deere 1025R, MF 1720 and Kubota BX23S. I like the Kubota the best, mostly because I'm just partial to them and have always wanted one. The Deere is nice too, but I dunno, Deere's always kind of turned me off due to their gold plated parts and their cult like status amongst some people. Seems like you have to pay a premium just for the name. And although I've never owned one or bought parts for them, boy I've heard stories about it my whole life. Although I suspect Kubota's probably not much better.

I was impressed with the MF 1720 in terms of its capabilities vs price vs Kubota and Deere. Seems like it's a better value overall. And from what I read, the backhoe has like 400lbs more digging force than the others (I think). And all reviews I have seen of it are very good too. Plus it's made in Japan which I like. Only downside I could see is it didn't quite have the fit and spit polish finish of the Deere or Kubota. It was a little more no frills in the appearance dept. Not that that matters. I happened to mention the 1720 to a guy I work with. Turns out he had one himself and just sold it little while ago. He loved it and couldn't sing its praises enough. So the 1720 seems like a really like good option and probably the most sensible selection unless I can score a Deere or Kubota at a comparable price.

In the meantime I'm going to keep my eyes open for all candidates, tending towards the 30hp zone if I can find one.

 

[ovrszd]

ovrszd - post #18. Amazing, we both think along the same lines. What is with this new generation - is it cool to remain "lost" or does it give an aloof feeling? Surely, nobody should feel that by sharing their location that they will be subject to any nefarious actions. I just can't understand.........

In this particular venue it's very important. Before offering a logistical answer to an issue I always look at the person's location. As you said, I don't care about a street address. But a State would be nice.

 

[4570Man]

You’ll have no problems with a 5 foot cutter with 25 hp. I’ve done it plenty. The bigger challenge will be keeping the front end on the ground with a subcompact tractor. A regular yard mowing deck is not a comparison for a rotary mower, aka bush hog. My B7200 runs a 4 ft bush pretty good. I can’t lift the tail wheel of the cutter without adding weight to the tractor but power isn’t a problem. I think you’ll find yourself far more limited by weight then hp. My L3240 was way stronger than my grandpas higher HP L3800. My full-size backhoe is about 2.4 times the HP of the L3800. Does it do 2.4 times the work? No way more.

 

[aczlan]

You’ll have no problems with a 5 foot cutter with 25 hp. I’ve done it plenty. The bigger challenge will be keeping the front end on the ground with a subcompact tractor. A regular yard mowing deck is not a comparison for a rotary mower, aka bush hog. My B7200 runs a 4 ft bush pretty good. I can’t lift the tail wheel of the cutter without adding weight to the tractor but power isn’t a problem. I think you’ll find yourself far more limited by weight then hp. My L3240 was way stronger than my grandpas higher HP L3800. My full-size backhoe is about 2.4 times the HP of the L3800. Does it do 2.4 times the work? No way more.

I agree, we have 16 PTO horsepower on our B7500 and it just handles a 5 foot rough cut mower (you have to creep in tall grass, its fine in light brush or weeds under a foot tall).
If you add another 10 or 15 horsepower in addition to that, it should handle it just fine.
If you have issues with the front end coming up off the ground (and are just mowing a field), you can try disconnecting the top link so that you're only lifting the front of the mower and not the whole thing.

Aaron Z

 

[Dirk Digger]

The problem with the 20-25 hp subcompacts, especially those with hydros (i.e. nearly all of them), is that the actual net PTO output is about 5-7 hp less than the engine power. This makes for pretty marginal 4-5 ft bush hog performance in dense 3ft+ tall weeds and saplings. My Gravely tractor has a 20hp Wisconsin with a 4' mower deck with no hydro-inefficiencies, and it was brought to its knees every time in that thicket. I know it's not a dedicated bush hog mower with the special blades and all, but still...one of the reasons I'd prefer to go with a surplus of PTO power if at all possible.

 

[MossRoad]

What痴 the planned use to want 35 hp in a 1700 pound tractor? You値l never put that power to the ground and you値l be unlikely to get a mower big enough to use it.

There's a couple people here on TBN that bought underpowered machines that can't mow AND climb a hill at the same time. More than a couple, actually. Quite a few over the years. I say settle on a frame size and then get the highest HP engine offered in that frame. If you then compare dollar per HP, it usually works out exactly the same.

 

[4570Man]

There's a couple people here on TBN that bought underpowered machines that can't mow AND climb a hill at the same time. More than a couple, actually. Quite a few over the years. I say settle on a frame size and then get the highest HP engine offered in that frame. If you then compare dollar per HP, it usually works out exactly the same.

But 35 hp in a 1700 pound tractor. I’m not even aware of such a package.

 

[MossRoad]

Tractor will be used mostly for mowing my hilly 1 acre residential lot, plowing snow off my 200' driveway, digging various drainage ditches or minor/small stump/root removals once in a while, minor landscaping type work around the house, hauling firewood, dirt, stone etc in a small trailer once in a while. And then maybe 1-3 times a year I need to bush hog about 2 acres on another property. Plus maybe some minor tree clean up there once in a while as well.

My gravely 20hp tractor is a sturdy beast but it can't bush hog my 2 acres. It smoked the clutch in it and labored the motor. Like Captain Kirk, I want more power for my attachments. Won't need it 95% of the time, but when I need it I want it. Plus I like the idea of having reserve power so I'm not taxing my tractor in any way. And if the tractor's a mere 200-300 lbs heavier than a 20-25hp model? Seems like a good idea to me.

Your thought process is correct. :thumbsup:

 

[Jchonline]

But 35 hp in a 1700 pound tractor. I’m not even aware of such a package.

I sure can’t think of one either. JD 3 series is still around 2200 lbs no FEL. I would not even consider the B3350 right now. Maybe when they release the common rail engine. LS XG is 2800lbs. MF 1734 is 2700.

 

[4570Man]

What’s wrong with the B3350? But anyway it weighs more than 1700 pounds and is less than 35 hp. To the op I suggest you try a rotary cutter before you go to far with this idea. 25 engine hp will be fine IMO. A mower deck just can’t eject the grass clippings fast enough and gets choked. It’s really not made to cut grass over about 6”.

 

[Dirk Digger]

You'll have no problems with a 5 foot cutter with 25 hp. Ive done it plenty.

The only problem is that a 25 hp subcompact only puts out about 19hp at the PTO. A 21hp subcompact puts out about 16hp at the PTO. Mowing 3+ft tall saplings and thick weeds is no easy going with a 5ft mower with that much power (especialy on hills where propelling the tractor weight also consumes even more of that very limited power). Unless lurching along at a very low speed.

But 35 hp in a 1700 pound tractor. I'm not even aware of such a package.

Actually what I said was "I'd like to have closer to 30-35hp instead of 20-25hp." Not 35hp specifically. Here are the stats for the Kubota models I mentioned:

B7800 30hp (22hp at PTO) at 1741 lbs
B3200 32hp (23hp at PTO) at 1764 lbs

 

[4570Man]

While I can’t argue that more power is obviously better I’ve done a lot of work with a ck25 with 19.5 hp and a 5’ cutter. That tractor weighs over 3000 without the loader, loaded tires and the cutter. Putting the tractor on a diet to the size you want and I think the pto power would be fine.

 

[aczlan]

The problem with the 20-25 hp subcompacts, especially those with hydros (i.e. nearly all of them), is that the actual net PTO output is about 5-7 hp less than the engine power. This makes for pretty marginal 4-5 ft bush hog performance in dense 3ft+ tall weeds and saplings. My Gravely tractor has a 20hp Wisconsin with a 4' mower deck with no hydro-inefficiencies, and it was brought to its knees every time in that thicket. I know it's not a dedicated bush hog mower with the special blades and all, but still...one of the reasons I'd prefer to go with a surplus of PTO power if at all possible.

How much torque did your Wisconsin engine have? The B7500 that we have (21 engine HP, 16 PTO HP) would probably handle a 4-foot mower deck with no problems in most any conditions. It handles a 5-foot mower deck fairly well, but you have to go slow when you are in thick grass or brush.

Aaron Z

 

[dnw64]

Plus I like the idea of having reserve power so I'm not taxing my tractor in any way.

Tractors are designed to run at full capacity for many hours at a time (like the original VW). You will not kill a tractor engine for decades in homeowner use if properly maintained.

 

[Dirk Digger]

How much torque did your Wisconsin engine have? The B7500 that we have (21 engine HP, 16 PTO HP) would probably handle a 4-foot mower deck with no problems in most any conditions. It handles a 5-foot mower deck fairly well, but you have to go slow when you are in thick grass or brush. Aaron Z

I don't know how much torque it has (could easily be googled though). And I misspoke, it's actually a Kohler horizontally opposed twin engine, not a Wisconsin. But either way, it creates 20hp, which is delivered to the mower deck (minus mechanical frictional losses, limitations in PTO clutch power transfer and the power required to move the tractor). Power is torque x rpm and is the rate at which a machine can do work. So available power (torque x rpm) at the deck is really what matters, not just torque. The only way I could get my Gravely tractor to handle the overgrowth was to inch along extremely slowly. Only then could it digest the overgrowth without bogging down and getting choked. So technically, it could do that job, it would just take forever. Hence the need for more power - or in another words, something with the ability to perform the bush hogging at a much higher pace.

Tractors are designed to run at full capacity for many hours at a time (like the original VW). You will not kill a tractor engine for decades in homeowner use if properly maintained.

Yes I know they are designed to run at full capacity for many hours at a time. But the life of a tractor operated that way will be much shorter than one that gets mixed use or is always used lightly. And I plan on keeping whatever tractor I buy for at least two decades, or as long my body and life holds out (which of course no one can predict). As long as I pick a properly sized, high quality tractor with minimal use, this should be my last one.

 

[heavy hammer]

Are you trying to keep it light for a specific reason. From what you have described is you need a bigger, more powerful tractor. If it weighs over 1700 lbs is that bad? I say go with the bigger more powerful tractor, you will have more power, when needed, and weight and size. Are you set on that weight range? I was looking at a 30-35 hp range for my 2.5 acres but I ended up going bigger 40 hp one size bigger. I still use it to finish mow some of my back yard,, push snow, move firewood, pull out stumps. What I'm getting at is I'm very happy I went bigger, I have used it to help a friend log some small properties. For me having a little more tractor was the better decision. Are you going to keep the other tractor you have? If you are I would look at the bigger heavier ones. You said your smaller tractor struggles to do some of the jobs you need done, answer is right their. Hope this helps.

 

[Dirk Digger]

Are you trying to keep it light for a specific reason. From what you have described is you need a bigger, more powerful tractor. If it weighs over 1700 lbs is that bad? I say go with the bigger more powerful tractor, you will have more power, when needed, and weight and size. Are you set on that weight range?

The reason why I want to stay around that size and weight is because if I go bigger, I'll need a bigger shed, a bigger trailer and a bigger towing vehicle. Plus a bigger tractor than around `~1700 lbs or so becomes cumbersome to mow my hilly residential lawn, which means I'd need another riding mower, which means yet another machine to buy, maintain and shelter.

 

[heavy hammer]

For me then I would get the heaviest, most hp for the tasks you have at hand in that range. For you hp might be more important than weight since you are brush hogging and you need more power correct? What is the price difference between the B3200, and the B7800. They seem so close in weight, and hp, what are the other differences?

 

[AchingBack]

You aren't going to find a 1700 lb. tractor to meet your needs. It's fantasy thinking.

 

[Dirk Digger]

There's a couple people here on TBN that bought underpowered machines that can't mow AND climb a hill at the same time. More than a couple, actually. Quite a few over the years. I say settle on a frame size and then get the highest HP engine offered in that frame. If you then compare dollar per HP, it usually works out exactly the same. Your thought process is correct. :thumbsup:

Thanks, I think it has merit. But I still wanted to hear other perspectives. I'm not knowledgeable on modern tractors, but am starting to learn more seeing what others have to say.

For me then I would get the heaviest, most hp for the tasks you have at hand in that range. For you hp might be more important than weight since you are brush hogging and you need more power correct? What is the price difference between the B3200, and the B7800. They seem so close in weight, and hp, what are the other differences?

I agree with your thinking. And yes hp is more important than weight, other than weight has to stay below a certain threshold. And all I know about the 7800 vs the 3200is that the 7800 is the older model. Apparently the 3200 superseded it. And the 3200 has like 2 more hp (32 vs the 7800's 30). The weights are nearly identical (~1740lbs). Other than that I don't know the differences between the two. I assume the newer 3200 has more whiz bang features and probably commands a little higher price, especially being a newer machine.

You aren't going to find a 1700 lb. tractor to meet your needs. It's fantasy thinking.

Not sure what you're talking about? Several tractors have already been idenitifed that meet my specified needs. Or are you just a tractor troll?