Smoked a clutch on my tiller....

[jake98]

Well, I guess the question is, 'should it slip more often than a shear bolt would break?'. I can see both sides of this arguement..

 

[SPYDERLK]

No one said (except you, in yet ANOTHER of your incorrect statements) anything regarding "a steady state of slippage". That shows us a defiinate lack of reading comprehension skill on your part. (OR....A tendency to make things up as you go along... ) Your comments are living proof of what one of my dear old friends (who happened to be one of my engineering professors) often said. "Don't choke to death on your text books. They might have been written by ANOTHER engineer who didn't have any practical application experience, just living in the theoretical world...."

In other words, your "theory" doesn't hold water in the real world.

..... Simply reaching the point of torque input exceeds resistance makes 'em slip. (or SHOULD anyway...)

Some engineers seem to be able to interpret statements like this. The question would be, "How long is steady state?". The answer would be affected by the sensitivity of the system. In this case of significant variable load, and clutch damage occurring in just a few seconds, running close to the slip point is a danger to the clutch. Just a few seconds of slip due to a mild continued overload and its time to readjust because the operating point is changed by it. Steady state is shorter in the fast lane. Particularly when driving at higher than normal required power for the implement the clutch needs to stay well up in the torque design margin of the gearbox. Its then up to the operator to monitor the gearbox and clutch and decide whether to keep adjusting to renew after "lengthy" slips or just slow down ~10%
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

Well, I guess the question is, 'should it slip more often than a shear bolt would break?'. I can see both sides of this arguement..

To be kind to the gearbox, yes. Think how good it is to have a quarter or half turn of give vs ~1/10 turn of the extreme impulse transmitted by a shear bolt. Shear of a 3/8 Gr5 shearbolt will hold in the neighborhood of 100HP at 540rpm.
larry

 

[nspec]

Easy does it fellas. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. Obviously differences of opinion/operating techniques. That's why some people like chocolate, and some people like vanilla.

I think the original question was answered. Slip clutch should be fine. Lets move on.

 

[OkieDave]

Easy does it fellas. Let's all take a step back and a deep breath. Obviously differences of opinion/operating techniques. That's why some people like chocolate, and some people like vanilla.

I think the original question was answered. Slip clutch should be fine. Lets move on.

And those who know like Braum's Pineapple Sherbet. :licking:

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Some engineers seem to be able to interpret statements like this. The question would be, "How long is steady state?". The answer would be affected by the sensitivity of the system. In this case of significant variable load, and clutch damage occurring in just a few seconds, running close to the slip point is a danger to the clutch. Just a few seconds of slip due to a mild continued overload and its time to readjust because the operating point is changed by it. Steady state is shorter in the fast lane. Particularly when driving at higher than normal required power for the implement the clutch needs to stay well up in the torque design margin of the gearbox. Its then up to the operator to monitor the gearbox and clutch and decide whether to keep adjusting to renew after "lengthy" slips or just slow down ~10%
larry

While "other engineers" take the time to understand how theoretical life relates to REAL life....You make this sound like a few slips of the clutch will ruin it. You couldn't be farther from the truth. That is where REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with an actual slip clutch on an actual tiller being used in tough conditions, and while we're at it, for a great many more hours (at one time) than most tillers see in a lifetime of "average joe" use. Don't you think we've advanced enough in technology by year 2011 where we can design and build a slip clutch that ISN'T a fragile, single use only, "weak link" rather than the dependable, built in FUNCTIONAL protection it SHOULD be? Maybe you're a real cracker jack operator and NEVER put ANY stress on ANY part of your equipment. Who's to say you aren't.....But, most folks using slip clutch equipped tillers aren't going to run along in the dust behind the tiller and continuously monitor the temperature of the gearbox.....This stuff gets used in REAL WORLD use...So the likelyhood of the slip clutch getting a bit of abuse is a given....So any engineer worth his salt would spec a slip clutch that CAN slip, WILL slip, and SHOULD slip, and at a point far enough ahead of "catastrophic failure" to protect the tiller without taking things to the very limit.

Long story short, there are no points to be gained by using a tiller for it's entire life without the clutch ever slipping for a couple or three seconds at a time. There's enough evidence that won't do long term damage with the OCCASIONAL "slip". You can do the lab test's under controlled conditions.....You can ride on the tiller to monitor the clutch and gearbox as you suggested.....

I'll stick with what WORKS, which is a slip clutch that actually does something rather than collecting dust in a barn.....

 

[Farmwithjunk]

And those who know like Braum's Pineapple Sherbet. :licking:

Ben & Jerry's "Cherry Garcia" ..... (sweet tooth is kickin')

 

[foggy1111]

FWIW....I tilled about 3 acres of "broken" ground without so much as a hickup, before tackling the acre or so of nasty "new" ground. Things were cool and set right for the easy land.

When operating over the new ground, I got a few stump remnants stuck and lots of roots and tangles and was able to shut down with minor slippage a few times and get things cleaned out for another go at it. But those events are cumulative to heating things up.....and a few slippage events got progressively worse very quickly with the the now hot clutch. Then too, I forced it a bit trying to finish without further adjustment before my big smoker which I caught too late....and didnt get shut down fast enough. So.....I spose you can call that abuse or operator error. (its a cruel world )

In my defense, lotsa "engineers" woulda had the same problem IMO....unless you wanna dork around for a week or more mining the roots and stumps - I dont (and if JD had a decent tool box....I wudda had the right tools out in the field.)

After cooling and re-adjusting the clutch, the tiller operated very good again. I think I will get a spare clutch and a KK U joint. I got a few peices of KK equipment....and sooner or later...........

Thanks for a lively debate on this issue.......and pass the cherry-nut. I havent had any of that in a long time.

Foggy - The abuser.

 

[SPYDERLK]

While "other engineers" take the time to understand how theoretical life relates to REAL life....You make this sound like a few slips of the clutch will ruin it. You couldn't be farther from the truth. That is where REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with an actual slip clutch on an actual tiller being used in tough conditions, and while we're at it, for a great many more hours (at one time) than most tillers see in a lifetime of "average joe" use. Don't you think we've advanced enough in technology by year 2011 where we can design and build a slip clutch that ISN'T a fragile, single use only, "weak link" rather than the dependable, built in FUNCTIONAL protection it SHOULD be? Maybe you're a real cracker jack operator and NEVER put ANY stress on ANY part of your equipment. Who's to say you aren't.....But, most folks using slip clutch equipped tillers aren't going to run along in the dust behind the tiller and continuously monitor the temperature of the gearbox.....This stuff gets used in REAL WORLD use...So the likelyhood of the slip clutch getting a bit of abuse is a given....So any engineer worth his salt would spec a slip clutch that CAN slip, WILL slip, and SHOULD slip, and at a point far enough ahead of "catastrophic failure" to protect the tiller without taking things to the very limit.

Long story short, there are no points to be gained by using a tiller for it's entire life without the clutch ever slipping for a couple or three seconds at a time. There's enough evidence that won't do long term damage with the OCCASIONAL "slip". You can do the lab test's under controlled conditions.....You can ride on the tiller to monitor the clutch and gearbox as you suggested.....

I'll stick with what WORKS, which is a slip clutch that actually does something rather than collecting dust in a barn.....

I told ya a million times not to exaggerate. ... Well -- once anyway. :confused3:
larry

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I told ya a million times not to exaggerate. ... Well -- once anyway. :confused3:
larry

For what it's worth, you at least got one thing right.....You're confused OK.....Badly.