SNAPPER REAR-ENGINE RIDER...HELP!!

[Travis_R]

Hey ya'll,

I have an at least a 20 year old Snapper rear-engine riding lawn mower. The model # is: 3011X5S, meaning 30 inch cut, 11 horse power (Briggs). (It now has a 12.5 horse Briggs Power Built.) I don't know what the X5S stands for. But anyway, there is a good little problem wrong with it. It doesn't want to go up a hill. It just stopps. Does the same thing in tall grass. I'll try to rock it back and forth while I am on the seat to "help it out", but that only works sometimes. I think it has a new rubber disc or drive plate on it or something like that. There is NO grinding or popping or any abnormal noise in the transmission. So, maybe it is something minor. I don't know. I hate to keep using it and possibly tear it up. It is an EXCELLENT mower and is in real good shape.. I love it. It is very dependable. I even flipped it completely over on top of me when I was loading it in the back of my truck. Didn't even put a scratch on it. But my back was a little sore for a few days. I could have been hurt bad, but was lucky. I won't make that mistake again. I realize how important safety is. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I woul like to repaint the mower, but don't know how hard the process wouls be. Last year, I replaced both front wheel bearings, left front wheel grease zerk, and all of the steering bushings. This is why I want to fix it up. It is in that good of shape. It don't really have any rust on it. Just faded paint. Even the decals (stickers) are in good shape. Plus, it was handed down from my paw-paw. That is why I WON'T get rid of it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I put the second engine on it. The first one got rebuilt, and lasted a good while longer till it was time to retire it.
So, my questions are:
1. What is wrong with the drive system?
2. Are there any adjustments I could try to make?
3. How much will EVERYTHING cost to fix it?
4. Are there any discount Snapper parts' websites?
5. What is the Auxilary brake pedal used for, and when do you apply it?
6. How hard is it to replace the rear axle seals and bearings/bushings?

Thanks in advance,
Travis R

 

[slammer]

Travis, In a snapper rear end you have 2 discs, a stationary or "drive" disc that is on the crank of the engine and the driven disc. Generally the rubber on the driven disc will either wear out or harden to the point that it will no longer grip the the drive disc. This is a wear and tear part and is generally inexpensive. About $8 I think. If it is cracked or appears flat instead of rounded change it before you do anything else. Also lubricate the shift linkage most people don't and they get stiff and flex, thus not moving the driven disc into the correct position. Next pop the black plastic inspection plug out of the gear box and check the oil level. It should be level with the fill hole. Note: Get a new plug and SNAPPER gear oil from your dealer before removal.

I don't know about discount Snapper parts. Try Google.

Cost depends on what all you do. Driven disc about $8, gear oil, $4, inspection plugs $1. All approximate as I am at home and not the shop.

The aux brake is for use in hard stop scenarios. Normally the clutch/brake will stop you just fine. But in an emergency you can stomp both brakes and really haul her to a stop.

Rear axle work of any kind is relatively simple on a Snapper of your vintage. Easily accomplished by anyone with any measure of mechanical inclination and a little patience.

I hope this helps you bud, let us know.

Slam

 

[Travis_R]

Slam,

I took in mind what you said and went out there and studied it. I took the driven disc off (the one with the rubber on it) of the machine. The rubber IS hard and flat on top(the rubber that rides on the plate connected to the crankshaft). I was wondering if the rubber is supposed to spin on the disc assembly. I don't think it is supposed to. I think the inner lining is wore out. I didn't know it had an inner lining. I thought it was metal and made to the metal disc. It is hard and tears Very easy. I think I am going to replace the inner lining rubber and the rubber that rides on the plate connected to the crankshaft on the engine. I'll let you know how it goes when I get these two rubber pieces replaced.
I took the mower, turned the throttle all the way down, and let it push up against a big tree. The wheels didn't turn and the engine didn't choke. That is just what I wanted it to do. I got off the mower, with it left in first gear and engine running and looked at the spinning driven disc. The rubber was just spinning freely. This is the rubber that rides on the plate connected to the crankshaft. I can move the rubber piece all over the disc assembly. Up, down, left, or right. So, that is why I am going to replace BOTH rubber pieces, if my Snapper dealer sells it that way. Should I replace the plastic shim that is inside there too? I THINK it will be real hard to get the rubber off of the disc, and to get a new one on. I don't believe the lining will be hard to take out or put in. I am going to take the driven disc assembly to my dealer and see what they say about it. I HOPE I don't have to buy a whole new assembly. But if I do, I will. I'll post back and let you know how it goes.
Also, how hard is it to change the rear axle seals? I have grease leaking out all over my right rear inner rim. I might have over greased the fitting that is on the end of the axle shaft. The bearings don't have ANY play in them, at least not on the right side anyway. That is hard to believe after 20 years of cutting alot of grass!
I have checked the lube in the transmission. I believe there are 3 or 4 plugs. I had to replace one of the plugs a few years ago. I bought some "ALCO brand Super Lube 00 Grease" from my old Snapper dealer. That is what they told me to put in it. Just how much are you SUPPOSED to use? I may have put more than I was supposed to. I usually over lube all of my equipment. Another question, is there any adjustment on the drive chain and sprocket inside of the transmission? If so, how do you do it? Not that it needs any adjustment, just curious to know. I want to know EVERYTHING there is to know about this mower. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thank you very much for replying, /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Travis

 

[slammer]

The driven disc is an assembly that is held on by 4 small bolts. It is very simple to change.

The rear axle seals are no problem either. Just compress the axle boots and everything is right there. Though it does sound like you may have gone a little heavy on the grease.

The ALCO gear lube might be ok but I would spend a couple extra bucks and get Snapper gear oil. As for "how much"...fill it till the level of oil is even with the fill hole. Kinda like the rear end in a car.

As for the drive chain..hmmm Don't think I have ever adjusted one. You stumped me on that one! I am sure that one of the guys in the back probably has, i'll find out for you.

Slam

 

[Travis_R]

Slam,

I am holding the driven disc assembly right now. Well, actually just looking at it while I type /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The rubber "wheel like piece" spins VERY freely on the metal disc. I don't think this is correct. Is it?
When I took the four little bolts off, there was a plastic "shim" there too. Do I replace it when I replace the two rubber pieces also?
As for the right rear axle seal or seals, I don't know if I understand you on that one /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I know about the axle boot, but how will I be able to change the seal just by compressing the boot? Wouldn't the axle have to come out? If so, how? How many seals are in there?

Is there a CERTAIN FILL/CHECK plug or bolt for the trans. oil, or do I just fill it in the top plug(s) while the mower is standing on its rear end til' the oil runs out of the plug? There are about 3 or 4 plastic plug caps on the trans.

With all of this being said and even though it is definitely worth the cost, how much money am I looking at in parts?

Thanks,
Travis R

 

[slammer]

On the rear seals and axles it's not hard just have to watch what you're doing.

Take the wheels off and the wheel hubs. Next take the outer clamps on the axle boots off. Take the bolts on the right side that hold the differential to the frame of the mower and pull the whole thing out of the mower. You can lock the hex tube in a vise and take the bolts that hold the cover on the differential and slide it off. The axle assy will slide out of the hex tube and you can take it apart and replace the necessay parts. When you slide the differential assy out to the mower there is a steel thrust washer and some nylon thrust wahers between the end of the hex shaft and the left axle bushing in the left fender. The metal thrust washer has a lip on the inside that fits into the hex tube and the nylon washer go between it and the axle bushing. You take the side to side motion out of the rear end by adding nylon washers between the metal washer and the axle bushing. You need about 1/32 to 1/16 end play. Put it back togethor and fill the rear end from the top plug with the mower on end.

On the disc, yes go ahead and replace the fiber shim also.

Cost if you do the seals to will still be less than $75.

Slam

 

[Travis_R]

Slam,

You have been alot of help to me. I am going to work on my mower tomorrow and TRY to take the rear end apart. I THINK I can do it, not for sure. I do have one more question though before I get started:

Now that I know I have to take the rear-end apart to change the seals, should I go ahead and replace EVERYTHING in the differential like: Chain, Sprockets, Gears, Bearings, Gaskets, etc., or whatever else is in there? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Thank you so much,
Travis

P.S......Do you have a web site for your shop/business? Can or would you ship parts to my area? Where are you located? If you could ship parts, would it be worth the trouble for you and the time for me or should I just got to my local Snapper dealer? Are you a Snapper dealer?

 

[slammer]

Slam,
Now that I know I have to take the rear-end apart to change the seals, should I go ahead and replace EVERYTHING in the differential like: Chain, Sprockets, Gears, Bearings, Gaskets, etc., or whatever else is in there? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif


Travis I am glad to help you bud. To take your last question first, I dropped Snapper when they started selling them at Wal-mart. I still work on them and I have the local warranty contract. As for the parts you will be better off in the long run supporting your local dealer. This will pay dividends later.

Now back to our project. I would replace the bearings, seals, and gaskets while you have it apart. I would just inspect the gear and chain assembly and replace it if it shows significant wear and tear. Also inspect the axles. I have seen many Snappers in the 20 year range with rear ends that have had nothing more than the driven disc changed.

Good luck!

 

[Travis_R]

I have seen many Snappers in the 20 year range with rear ends that have had nothing more than the driven disc changed.


Slammer,

I think that is what I am going to do. Just change the Driven Disc. Besides the Auxilary brake don't work, the disc is the ONLY thing that is wrong with the Snapper. I inspected the trans. today without taking it off the mower. I have decided NOT to rebuild the trans. The axle seals ARE NOT bad enough to change. I just simply over lubed the thing, like I always do my equip. So, WHY FIX IT IF IT AIN'T BROKE /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif? Hell, it isn't even any slack in the bearings. AMAZING for being 20 years old! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
When it comes time to rebuild the trans., then i'll try to attempt it. Right now, I am not out anything but a simple driven disc. If I try to tinker with the trans., there is a possibility that I might not get it back together. ONLY when it breaks will it be worth me to try to fix it. I'll leave it alone til' then because I KNOW I have MANY more years of service out of it.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR HELPIN' ME /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I could have called my Snapper dealer and asked for advice, or what was wrong with it, but it just wasn't as fun as coming on the internet and talking to people like yourself.
I will post back and tell you how the mower runs when I get the new driven disc assembly put back on.

Again, thanks alot and I will post back soon.

Travis

P.S......Thanks also for being honest about telling me to stick with my local Snapper dealer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

 

[slammer]

Travis, no problem bud. The guys won't let the "boss" back in the shop anymore so helping anyone I can is a treat for me and I am sincerely glad to do it. Of course I love to talk mowers in general and this place is full of good people with similar interests. Good luck bud! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Slam

 

[Travis_R]

Slam,

I finally got my parts today. I got the drive disc (the rubber wheel and the rubber liner). It came together already assembled on the metal piece. All I had to do was put it on the metal holder (the one with the four studs and nuts). I also did what you said and put a new fiber shim in there. The new shim looks like it is almost made out of cardboard. But, guess what? It didn't work. It is doing the same dam thing it was doing before. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif I put it up against a tree with the throttle turned all the way up and mower in 1st gear. I got off of the mower, while still left in gear and the tires didn't spin and the motor didn't choke down. I looked at the disc under the mower and the rubber wheel (part of the disc assembly) was spinning on the drive plate, but the whole drive disc assembly wasn't spinning. You know how the drive disc mounts on the keyed shaft of the mower. The shaft wasn't spinning. It does fine when you are just going on the ground. But when you get into thick grass, that is when it slown down and sometimes stops. Then, I have to rock it to get it to go and that gives me the red ****.

It is in way too good of shape to let it just go to waste. So, I have to fix it.

Do you think it could still be something with the drive disc assembly?

Think it could be a clutch adjustment? If so, HOW?

I don't know and I am bout' fed up with it.

Don't get me wrong, it will go on the flat ground like it isn't even a problem with it. But when the ground changes, so does the mower speed.
Please continue to help me with this situation. But if you don't want to fool with it any more, BELIEVE ME, I understand.

Still confused,
Travis

 

[slammer]

Calm down cow poke! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The "disc" or plate that is mounted on the engine crankshaft should spin all the time. Are you saying that it is NOT? Even if the "plate" attached to the crankshaft isnt spinning the crankshaft itself better be or I am calling Ripleys! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If the plate attached to the crank is not spinning under load then it has to be loose on the crank. Check the tightness of the (I think on your model) 2 allen head screws that secure it to the crankshaft. Matter of fact I would remove them completely, slide the "disc" down a bit and check if your model has the keyed shaft. If it does make sure that the key is not sheared. If it is not a keyed model move the plate down about 1/8" lower than it's original position and re-tighten. Make sure the screws are hernia tight! Try it and see what happens.

Let me know! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Slam

 

[Travis_R]

Slammer,

The plate on the crankshaft spins like it is supposed to. It IS on a keyed crankshaft.

The plate on the crankshaft spins the "rubber wheel on the drive disc", but not the whole disc assembly, which causes the wheels not to spin.

In other words, the inner drive disc assembly stays stationary, while the "rubber wheel" on the outer drive disc spins on the plate connected to the crankshaft.

Travis

 

[Travis_R]

Slammer,

I MIGHT know what is wrong with my Snapper. Like i said, I replaced the drive disc assembly and it didn't solve the problem. But, it DID make a LITTLE difference. I now have another solution.

You think that it could be that the "driven disc" on the crankshaft needs to be moved farther down on the crankshaft to make a better and more "tighter" contact with the drive disc? That is what I believe now. How 'bout you?

If this is so, HOW DO I MOVE THE PLATE DOWN? I know that there are 2 allen head screws that hold either the pulley for the deck drive belt on the crankshaft, or the the 2 screws holds the metal driven disc on the crankshaft. IT IS A KEYED CRANKSHAFT. The 2 screws might just hold the pulley and the driven disc on the crank.

So what I am trying to as is HOW DO I MOVE THE DRIVEN DISC FARTHER DOWN ON THE CRANKSHAFT?

Thanks a lot,
Travis R

 

[Travis_R]

Slammer!

I fixed it!!! I fixed it!! I know what the problem was!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The driven disc that connects to the crankshaft was not making good contact to the drive disc at all. I loosened the 2 allen screws on the assembly connected to the crankshaft and took a hammer and hit the driven disc down to where it made a real good contact with the drive disc. I am not going to put the old drive disc back on. I will leave the new one on there. I also adjusted the clutch. YES, there IS an adjustment. I got to studying it and saw that there were some "metal spacers" on the clutch cable line that were just sliding back an forth doing nothing as a purpose. Well, they are there for a purpose. They are there to take up slack in the clutch system. They just went in FRONT of the left clutch/brake pedal. In other words, they went in front of your left foot behind the clutch/brake pedal. You probably know what I am talking about. (3 little separate round spacers.) I had to use all 3. Without these spacers, the clutch went all the way to the "floor" and the clutch didn't want to release. The mower wanted to keep going. Man, that thing will spin the wheels now!!! Not to mention the hill I went up!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One more thing though. When I am in 5th gear fixing to slow down and come to a stop, the mower "jumps" and sounds like something is "grinding". IF I PUSH THE CLUTCH/BRAKE PEDAL ALL THE WAY DOWN, IT WILL NOT DO THIS. It does this when I push the clutch in and "slow down", and sometimes when I am fixing to start off in 5th gear by letting out on the clutch VERY easy. Are you supposed to start off in 5th? Will you hurt it? I know this ain't normal, but is it a problem? Could it turn into a MAJOR problem? IT EVEN DID THIS BEFORE I CHANGED THE DRIVE DISC AND MOVED THE DRIVEN DISC DOWN ON THE CRANKSHAFT.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Travis

 

[slammer]

Good for you Travis! I knew you could do it. In our last conversation I mentioned moving it down an 1/8" but it was buried in the meat of the post. Glad you got the ol' girl going bud....now get to mowin'! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Slam