Snow Equipment Buying/Pricing Snowblowing setup for a long, steep driveway

[MarkFromWA]

I'm in the mountains/foothills of WA with a 1-mile dirt/gravel driveway that is seriously steep (13% average, 21% maximum), plus another half mile that I share with neighbors. The driveway is narrow and curvy, and is cut across a steep hill so the edge drops off. We get about 100 of snow per year. Our plow guy has trouble with the volume some years (like this year), so I'm thinking about getting a tractor with a blower to take care of it myself. This would have the additional benefit of avoiding the plow piles that keep the driveway muddy in the spring after the rest of the snow has melted off. I don't want to be craning my neck for 2 miles every time it snows, so it's going to need to be a front blower. And, unless someone wants to talk me out of it, hydrostatic transmission and a cab. I have JD and Mahindra dealers an hour away, and Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, MF, and Bobcat dealers 2 hours away. At this point, I'm mostly looking at Kubota and Kioti.

My main question is around horsepower and ground speed. I don't want to spend more than an hour on a normal 6" snowfall, which means I normally need to be moving 2 mph at a minimum, hopefully at least 3 mph. Many people seem happy with the B2650, and people talk up the Kubota blowers a lot, but based on YouTube videos I've seen they are often moving fairly slow when blowing (perhaps close to 2 mph). If I buy a Kioti, I'm looking towards a 50+ hp DK. Will double the power that translate to being able to move twice as quickly when blowing? Kioti's literature on their DK-compatible blower recommends 25-40 PTO hp. Will it actually be able to effectively use all 40 hp, or does the snowblower design lead to declining ROI with each additional hp? What if I put it on a DK6010SE (which has 45 PTO hp)?

Reliability is a high priority--my driveway is trailer-unfriendly, and with the distance to the dealer it would become quite a headache. Being stranded in the winter would be especially unfortunate. Other than blowing speed and reliability, there are some additional priorities. In the winter, a heavier tractor would do better at breaking up driveway ice (I would have chains, of course), and would be more effective at pulling a stuck vehicle (which I hope won't happen, but good to be prepared). In the summer, my only regular use would be driveway maintenance, but there are lots of projects where I'd love to have a tractor with a FEL to move heavy things around (including when we build a new house to replace our cabin).

For winter maintenance of a steep, high-consequence driveway, what else should I be thinking about? From what I'm reading in threads, a rear blade to get more snow off the driveway (and reduce ice build-up) is a must. Is a salt/sand spreader effective, and if so, how much sand should I be spreading on a 1-mile driveway when I think things are going to get icy? Is there a better way to add traction to an icy surface (or avoid the ice altogether)?

 

[airbiscuit]

Not sure what what to say about ice. There are lots of threads here about sanders.

Here is a video of my 40hp New Holland with a Rear Pull Snowblower.

 

[mikester]

I think you want 60+ PTO HP and run a double auger front or pull style blower. Chain all 4 tires. For your distances I'd go electric or hydraulic shuttle shift and a much bigger tractor with front and rear 3PH. Check out the Versatile bi-directional tractors.

If you want to plow and sand buy a used county/city tandem axel plow truck.

Machine Weight is your friend.

 

[oosik]

I'm over here on the "dry" side. About 25 miles due SW of Spokane. I've got a mile long gravel driveway. It crosses a deep valley. The slopes into and out of the valley are around 10 to 12%.

My first tractor was a 1982 Ford 1700 4WD. When plowing snow - I needed chains to plow into and out of the valley. One side of the driveway, in the valley, always ices up badly. Chains took care of that.

In 2009 I upgraded to a brand new Kubota M6040. The way I have it set up now - it weighs 10,100#. Heavy grapple on the FEL, RimGuard loaded rear tires, Rhino 950 rear blade @ 1050#. It has Kubotas hydraulic shuttle shift.

With the weight of the Kubota I no longer need chains. 4WD will easily dig the tractor out of the valley while clearing snow with the rear blade.

Just by the nature of the beast - blowing snow will, most always, be slower than blading snow. When I had the blower - it was 3, maybe 4, mph at max. With the rear blade it's 5 to 7 mph.

 

[Captain Dirty]

. . . Chain all 4 tires. . .

Scrutinize prospective tractors carefully. While front tire chains will fit and clear on my tractor when the the wheels are straight, the chains will batter the end of the tailpipe/ehaust when the wheel are turned to steer.

 

[metalbender]

Would the tractor be solely used for snow removal? How much property to maintain? Bigger tractors have more grunt along with weight.

 

[leonz]

I'm in the mountains/foothills of WA with a 1-mile dirt/gravel driveway that is seriously steep (13% average, 21% maximum), plus another half mile that I share with neighbors.

What is the actual slope or gradient of the land?


The driveway is narrow and curvy, and is cut across a steep hill so the edge drops off.

You have to have adhesion to obtain traction and you need high visibility as well as using markers like steel fence posts painted orange to delineate the road edge


We get about 100 of snow per year. Our plow guy has trouble with the volume some years (like this year), so I'm thinking about getting a tractor with a blower to take care of it myself.

How much can you afford to spend on the right machine the first time and not have to worry about any issues? You need a decision tree to make a definitive decision before you become entangled in price and dealing with salemen.




This would have the additional benefit of avoiding the plow piles that keep the driveway muddy in the spring after the rest of the snow has melted off. I don't want to be craning my neck for 2 miles every time it snows, so it's going to need to be a front blower. And, unless someone wants to talk me out of it, hydrostatic transmission and a cab. I have JD and Mahindra dealers an hour away, and Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, MF, and Bobcat dealers 2 hours away. At this point, I'm mostly looking at Kubota and Kioti.

If you invest in a large enough 4 wheel drive tractor you can clear snow in comfort with a rear mount 2 stage snow blower and have a swivel seat, front and rear cameras, radio and HID work lights. You definitely need snow and ice chains like the TRYGG snow and ice chains.

My main question is around horsepower and ground speed. I don't want to spend more than an hour on a normal 6" snowfall, which means I normally need to be moving 2 mph at a minimum, hopefully at least 3 mph.

OK so you want to be able to clear snow pack at anywhere from 2.9 feet per second at 2 miles per minute, 174 per minute or greater. that takes power, torque and adhesion.

Many people seem happy with the B2650, and people talk up the Kubota blowers a lot, but based on YouTube videos I've seen they are often moving fairly slow when blowing (perhaps close to 2 mph).

See the above. You need horsepower, torque and adhesion, front mounted snow blowers are very expensive, require mid mount drives systems and operate a a greater RPM with lower efficiency than rear mount snow blowers.



If I buy a Kioti, I'm looking towards a 50+ hp DK.


You need a dealer and dealer network that will come ot your home in all weather to provide service and repairs


Will double the power that translate to being able to move twice as quickly when blowing? Kioti's literature on their DK-compatible blower recommends 25-40 PTO hp. Will it actually be able to effectively use all 40 hp, or does the snow blower design lead to declining ROI with each additional hp? What if I put it on a DK6010SE (which has 45 PTO hp)?


NO, NO, NO, your travel speed will be governed by the conditions, being depth of snow pack, weight of snowpack visibility and temperature. Machines with hydrostatic drive systems will lose power from heat and oil flow; that said the larger the machine, the greater the frame size, the greater the weight for adhesion and traction, the greater the horsepower and thus the torque, A gear driven machine like your BCS 737 being a direct gear drive system to the implement is always a good investment. Saying that, A used high horsepower 4 wheel drive row crop tractor with a swivel seat, all weather cab and work lights will easily operate a 7 foot wide 2 stage snow blower as all you will need to purchase is snow and ice chains for the rear tires and the snow blower as the rear tires will have already been loaded with liquid ballast. The larger row crop tractor will have the heated cab, swivel seat, work lights and higher visibility as you are above the snow looking at the snow blower in comfort due to the wide rear window and swivel seat.


Reliability is a high priority--my driveway is trailer-unfriendly, and with the distance to the dealer it would become quite a headache. Being stranded in the winter would be especially unfortunate. Other than blowing speed and reliability, there are some additional priorities. In the winter, a heavier tractor would do better at breaking up driveway ice (I would have chains, of course), and would be more effective at pulling a stuck vehicle (which I hope won't happen, but good to be prepared). In the summer, my only regular use would be driveway maintenance, but there are lots of projects where I'd love to have a tractor with a FEL to move heavy things around (including when we build a new house to replace our cabin).
For winter maintenance of a steep, high-consequence driveway, what else should I be thinking about? From what I'm reading in threads, a rear blade to get more snow off the driveway (and reduce ice build-up) is a must. Is a salt/sand spreader effective, and if so, how much sand should I be spreading on a 1-mile driveway when I think things are going to get icy? Is there a better way to add traction to an icy surface (or avoid the ice altogether)?

Yes reliability is important, a dealer network is important, the serviceability of the machine by the owner is important, the ability of the servicing dealer is important as well as their ability to reach you when you need service or warranty warranty work.

With your situation your going to have to look at a nearly new used diesel row crop tractor with loaded rear tires, snow and ice chains, all weather cab and work lights that can handle a 7 foot 2 stage snow blower; OR a used snow cat that has a snow blower and can be equipped with a sand spreader. The front hitch on the small snow cat can also be equipped with a plow so you can do earth work/grading as well. AS a consumer "Return On Investment" does not come into play with the purchase of a snow blower and tractor for personal use as they are not used to generate gross income. You can purchase sand spreaders with gas engines that could be mounted on a snow cat. You could fill the sand spreader with a small grain auger but you will need to keep the sand dry or use a space heater to melt the ice and snow in the sand.
Buy more power than you need and the tractor will barely work and you will have plenty of adhesion as long as you buy good snow and ice chains and have loaded rear tires
and the torque to use a rear mount 7 foot wide 2 stage snow blower. Having a trailer load of gravel sand for grit and traction would be money in the bank, putting it in the right place to make use of it is the issue as you have difficult terrain to travel on with a dump truck loaded with 22 plus tons of wet sand. Carrying the sand to your home if the dump truck driver will not travel up on your hill will require you to use a front end loader and carry a bucket load up the hill each time and dump it where you can access it in the middle a snow and ice storm.
Having a a three point hitch mounted snow blower with a front mount snow blower has its perks. The problem is loading it, You need a spreader that you can lower to the ground to fill it by hand. Using a small grain auger with a hopper to load it with a shovel will save both your back and time. A gas engine powered sand spreader mounted on a snow cat can be filled with a grain auger as well.

You have to understand that a front mounted snow blower will encounter snowpack that is taller in depth than the snow blower attachment and the snow will ride over the top of it and you will have to come back and clean it up. A rear mount will pull the snow down into it to get rid of it.
I would rather see you lease a used row crop tractor, invest in a high end snowblower like a 7 foot Pronovost or Lorenz 2 stage snow blower and good snow and ice chains. You could lease a heavy skid steer loader for temporary grunt work as farm tractors are not ment to be tasked with earth moving let alone grading dirt work nor are the front end loaders on farm tractors equipped with strong enough front end loader frames to rip up the ground as they are ment only ment to be used to carry loose materials not compacted dirt.

 

[airbiscuit]

leonz gave excellent advice. How about some pics of the driveway? Do you have drifting? If 6" is a typical snowfall amount, what is the worst snowfall amount you would have to deal with in a winter?

I would start a separate thread about How to deal with ice on a steep 1 mile driveway. That is a whole different cat.

• Explain how it gets icy - Sun, sleet, freeze / thaw, vehicle traffic, etc.?
• How you currently deal with it
• How people spread sand/salt Preferred equipment/cost?
• How people store salt/sand (and keep it loose)?
• How people load sand./salt?
• Keeping equipment clean.
• Success (and horror) stories

 

[rbargeron]

Your situation is challenging since you have relied on others to do winter roadwork. The "right equipment" is a combination of power, weight, speed, and also how you approach doing it yourself.

Over several years, I've had a few tractors and snowblowers, upgraded each time to improve overall effect. A 34 hp 4wd Kubota and 6' pull-forward blower gave way to a 50hp with 7' rear-mount, then the current 60hp cab rig with 7' front-mount.

Going from the BCS 737 to something like 60hp tractor with 7' blower is quite a machinery leap. You're doing the right thing in getting ideas from others.

A mile of driveway is a lot of snowblowing. A 3500 4wd truck with a vee plow would have some appeal. Maybe ask your current plow guy what he'd think was ideal for your driveway and go from there. Take care, Dick B

 

[Captain Dirty]

We, on this forum, know little or nothing of your wealth or lifestyle but will be quick to spend your money and tell you how to live. My suggestions:

Keep your plow guy. The cost of the equipment to expeditiously and reliably take care of the winter snows will be substantial if not astronomical. There is a learning curve with any equipment, and expensive equipment often engenders expensive mistakes. By keeping the plow guy you will have a relationship with someone to clear snow if you are unable to owing to equipment failure, absence, or health reasons.

Buy a medium size compact utility tractor. If you are planning on building I recommend one with an FEL capacity of around 2200 lbs. as many building materials come as 1-ton pallet loads. With appropriate attachments you can aid your plow guy by taking care of the built-up snow volume, etc. as well as gain valuable experience. With a few hundred hours you will have definite ideas as to what you want and need as well as realistic expectations.