So why do you buy Deere? Even when times are tough?

[gauthier]

I bought jd[even though times are bad] cause the advertising and my neighbors all seemed to suggest it,,and liked that country song jd green!,,also all those old pictures of jd of the 40"s and 50"s tractors,,just love that stuff...

I'm just kidding!! got a kioti and a sears and snapper lawnmower...

 

[Rob-D]

I am not missing any point, and for the record I guess your 2000 Series comparison to the 3000 Series is an apples to apples comparison? Just stating if I owned a business, which I don't and I was going to do any real work, which I am not, I would want a 110. In my make believe business I do not need a snow blower or any 3 point attachments. For you a 110 might be the last thing but for my "pretend" business it would be my first investment.

The point you missed was that I showed JD rates the 3000 series as "commercial" and the 2000 series as "residential". And it is apples to apples, both tractors are CUTs. Comparing a 110 to a CUT is apples to oranges.

Rob

 

[mjncad]

Don't hold back now mjncad. Tell us exactly how you feel!

Rob

If I did, at best the thread would be closed; at worst I'd be booted off.

You ask how JD is selling out considering all the other manufacturers are doing it. Well not ALL are doing it, but the real reason is, because JOHN DEERE was a household name for so many years, and trusted by EVERYONE. Not as much now.

That's the way I feel about Hewlett-Packard and Sony. In years past I bought their products no questions asked. Since they went cheap and kept premium pricing, I shop around now.

 

[picker77]

Seems to me after reading through 10 pages of posts on this thread that 95% of the knocks on JD are because of experiences with their lightweight consumer line of riding lawnmowers, built for the big box market. I know people like to call these things "tractors", not sure why unless it makes them feel like Farmer John out in the field while they are cutting their 1/4 acre lot once a week with something with the John Deere name on it. I also note that owners of JD's premium priced commercial mowers generally seem to love them, in spite of their stiff price.

I guess I'm saying that maybe we should all remember JD is a tractor and heavy equipment company that also happens to make a line of mowers, and within that line they definitely have two tiers--low cost but short life consumer grade, and high cost but long life commercial grade. People who want a mower that will run 15 or 20 years should be willing to pay for it. $1600 riding mowers at Lowe's or Home Depot, green or not, shouldn't be expected to give the same service as a heavy duty rig at a JD dealer that costs four or five times as much. I happen to run a big Scag zero turn and love it. However, I also paid a boatload of money for it. After 8 years of hard use I still think it was worth every penny, and I fully expect it to make another 8 years without major repairs. Can't ask for much more than that in a machine.

Maybe sometimes we forget this forum is TractorByNet, not LawnmowerByNet!

 

[DiezNutz]

Careful not to get my words twisted... what I said was:

You should already know how little "JD" there actually is in some equipment with the JD name on it...

And I wasn't talking about big box mowers there. I realize the situation improves as you move up the lines.

...The 2000 Series is made by Yanmar in Japan to John Deere design and specifications, it has been done this way for many years, and most people know that. Kubota makes the same size units in Japan to thier designs and specifications... If we move up to the 3000 Series we continue to use Yanmar engines (as do MF and NH use someone else's engine) with Sauer-Danfoss HSTs. The "e" in our "eHydro" transmission was researched, designed and engineered in house at Deere - the first (by far) electronically controlled HST in a CUT. If we slide over to the 3E Series we continue to use the proven Yanmar engine with a John Deere designed, engineered, and manufactured (in the USA) standard HST transmission. (Just a quick side note - the new transmissions in the new 5M Series units are also completely John Deere - from inception to manufacturing) Then on up to the 4000 Series tractors with John Deere PowerTech engines (2.4L models manufactured in Mexico) also using the Sauer-Danfoss HST with John Deere "e" technology... Please do not try and tell me how "little JD" goes into a John Deere product.

I hadn't planned to, but you just did about as good a job pointing that out as I could have, so... thanks? Look, I'm still not knocking JD or JD-branded equipment (maybe with exception of the BB junk)... never was. If you think that was my point, then I'm afraid you missed it.

Your defensiveness of JD is understandable given your position, and I can appreciate that. So there's no point in debating any of the rest of it with you, as I wasn't really looking to start or continue an argument... I don't take this stuff that seriously. I guess it got a little personal with my "do you know what you're selling" comment, even though it was said jokingly, it didn't come off very well...so I do apologize for that. At least we agree on #5).

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled programming.

 

[JD755]

1) What Zs am I forgetting about? The big box Z200 series run basic B&S engines and have HydroGear EZT transmissions with 1" axles - decent units with an affordable price tag, again these are homeowner units. The Z400 series run B&S and Kawi engines, have the same frame as the old 717A/727A commercial z-traks as well as the Kanzaki 10cc DUP (Dual Unitized Pump) with Parker wheel motors - also from the old 717A/727A commercial units. I have sold several Z445's both with the 54 and 54 High Capacity decks for light duty commercial service with no complaints at all. From there we have the heavier duty Z700A series (built off the Z900A commercial units) with Kohler Command commercial grade engines and finally the Z900A series of true commercial units with commercial grade Kawi engines. Where is the "selling out"?

2) How little JD is there in "some" equipment with the Deere name on it? Do you know, really? Or are you just going by what others say and/or post? The 2000 Series is made by Yanmar in Japan to John Deere design and specifications, it has been done this way for many years, and most people know that. Kubota makes the same size units in Japan to thier designs and specifications. MF and NH similar size units are made in Japan (yes I know NH has some LS/Korean units coming out) and are not designed or specified by MF and NH. (I sold MF for several years on the same lot as JD) If we move up to the 3000 Series we continue to use Yanmar engines (as do MF and NH use someone else's engine) with Sauer-Danfoss HSTs. The "e" in our "eHydro" transmission was researched, designed and engineered in house at Deere - the first (by far) electronically controlled HST in a CUT. If we slide over to the 3E Series we continue to use the proven Yanmar engine with a John Deere designed, engineered, and manufactured (in the USA) standard HST transmission. (Just a quick side note - the new transmissions in the new 5M Series units are also completely John Deere - from inception to manufacturing) Then on up to the 4000 Series tractors with John Deere PowerTech engines (2.4L models manufactured in Mexico) also using the Sauer-Danfoss HST with John Deere "e" technology. Have you been to our factories in Wisconsin, (Horicon) Georgia, (Augusta) or Tennessee, (Greenville)? I have. Have you seen a 7 gauge sheet of steel hit with a 3 million pound press to make a mower deck? I have. Please do not try and tell me how "little JD" goes into a John Deere product.

3) Big AG equipment - did JD sell out by manufacturing probably the finest Utility Tractors available over in Germany? Or the most dependable line - the basic 5D/5E tractors made in India?

4) Yes, Kub and NH are both major manufacturers - but they are major manufacturers without a real L&G portfolio to begin with. Kubota has their nitch - although it grows larger all the time while MF and NH are really still only AG based, MF and NH have some Z's, UV's etc (made by someone else) but really thier portfolio stops with the SCUTs - there is no other company that has the breadth and width that Deere does... Lawn & Garden, Golf, Commercial, Construction, Agricultural.

5) It seems/seemed completely unnecessary? In my personal opinion, I would prefer to not see the homeowner grade/big box models not be green/yellow and not have the leaping Deere logo and not have the John Deere name across it. But in the real world - John Deere would have exited the L&G business completely if they did not bring out the original "L" series big box mowers. Please dont say that it "seems/seemed" unnecessary when you dont know the whole story behind it. I was at the meeting where this was said, and I admit, none of us dealers were very happy. Sabre and Scotts (by John Deere) did not sell anywhere near the numbers that Deere needed them to. Is putting the Deere name on a decently built, lower priced, entry level lawn tractor available at big box stores worth also having the very well built, higher priced, high end lawn and garden tractors available only through dealers? I think so.

6) Do I really even know what I am selling? In a word, yes.

Regardless of one's opinion of the various JD products, it's nice to find a salesman who actually takes the time to learn the details of what he is selling. Thank you.

 

[beppington]

Seems to me after reading through 10 pages of posts ...

I only see three pages - You might want to consider changing your settings so you see the max # of posts on one page, which is 40 (I think default is only 10). Makes for less clickin' & waitin'. Click on "My Home", then "Edit Options" on the left, then midway down "Number of Posts to Show Per Page".

I know people like to call these things "tractors", not sure why unless it makes them feel like Farmer John out in the field while they are cutting their 1/4 acre lot once a week with something with the John Deere name on it.

That's probably the case for a lot of people. And for some, they just see "John Deere" & think quality. Hopefully JD's not ruining that with their re-branded stuff.

 

[Rob-D]

That's the way I feel about Hewlett-Packard and Sony. In years past I bought their products no questions asked. Since they went cheap and kept premium pricing, I shop around now.

I like HP printers and I have a Sony Bravia TV but I agree, caveat emptor. I check everything now but I don't think Consumer Reports is really that good. They went for years on their repair records and I feel the methods they used to gather info was flawed. It sure hurt the US car market. I'm glad to see Ford is coming back against companies like Toyota.

I remember when, back in the 90's, Toyota said they were going to cut back on quality control to reduce the cost of parts. A red flag went up. I was pretty loyal to them but today if I needed a new car I would shop around.

My Deere tractor is very well made, comparing one of them to their competitive box store riding mowers is a mistake, they are in two different categories.

Rob

 

[JD755]

I only see three pages - You might want to consider changing your settings so you see the max # of posts on one page, which is 40 (I think default is only 10). Makes for less clickin' & waitin'. Click on "My Home", then "Edit Options" on the left, then midway down "Number of Posts to Show Per Page".

Also helps to select showing the newest post first. Prevents a lot of scrolling when following a thread.

 

[Rob-D]

Also helps to select showing the newest post first. Prevents a lot of scrolling when following a thread.

Thanks for the tips guys! I changed the number of posts and the order.

Rob