Solar energy proposal, what do ya think?

[BillG_in_TX]

Woody, I think you should do it, and this is coming from someone who has a PV installation on my roof that I purchased (with a little help from my "friends"). I would like to address a few issues that have been raised:

• This particular installation doesn't have to be profitable for the company making the offer. It sounds like they are under a mandate to install "x" amount of renewable production as part of their agreement to take over electric distribution on Long Island. We had a similar situation in Texas 4 years ago, where as part of deregulation, the electric delivery company had a mandate to offer $x in rebates for renewable energy installations. They paid for 35% of my installation, the US taxpayers paid 30% via tax credits (thank you), and we paid the remaining 35%. Even at 2009 costs, that really reduces the payback period.
• PV efficiency degradation is projected at 0.5% per year, not 2%. After 30 years, the array should only lose 13.5% of its original capacity. Our production went up 4% in year 2, then down 0.5% in year 3, then down 1.6% in year 4. Overall, our 4 year average is 1.3% above the PV Watts estimate for year 1. Obviously, weather plays a huge part in this, and we may never know what the real drop is over time, unless we live here for another 25 years (I should be so lucky).
• I did a very thorough test on the dirt issue when my panels had gotten very dirty with dust, pollen and bird droppings. I have Enphase microinverters, so I can monitor output by panel. I cleaned only half of the panels, and measured a 0.7% increase in production on those panels vs. what was expected. Based on my experiment, I think that a 1.0% loss due to dirty panels is a generous estimate.
• Insurance may or may not be a problem. Our insurer (State Farm) did not apply any increase for the installation, probably because they didn't have enough experience to know whether they should charge more. We got a new roof last year (solar install was 3 years earlier) and State Farm paid for removal and reinstallation of the panels. Some day soon they will probably realize they should upcharge for this type of installation. Insurance coverage, premiums, deductibles, etc. are some things that you should nail down before signing up.
• Hurricanes on Long Island? They don't have "super storms" up there, do they?
  

 

[adventure bob]

My mistake, I did grab an old NREL (National renewable energy lab) report. The latest one has a sample size of 4K systems and median degradation is a little less than 1%. Apparently PV cells are getting better. Avg installed cost per watt, according to Berkeley labs as of august is over $5/watt.
Payback on a system big enough to offset a 2K sq ft house utilization by half still sucks.
We were looking at wind, but commercial mills have the same problems. If you can make your own the payback is faster.

 

[Redneck in training]

I think turnkey installation cost is more like $3-3.50/W now. I got bid for 3.50 last year. Since the installation is quite simple (I used microinverters) I decided to install it DIY. All material was 2.33/W before tax rebate or 1.50/W after rebate. My system is ground based. Roof mounted is significantly (10-20% less) cheaper. Single inverter as opposed to microinverters might lower the cost another 10% but I wouldn't recommend it for DIY unless you know what you are doing. If my system was roof mounted I could have install it at about a $1.00/W.

 

[Redneck in training]

My mistake, I did grab an old NREL (National renewable energy lab) report. The latest one has a sample size of 4K systems and median degradation is a little less than 1%. Apparently PV cells are getting better. Avg installed cost per watt, according to Berkeley labs as of august is over $5/watt.
Payback on a system big enough to offset a 2K sq ft house utilization by half still sucks.
We were looking at wind, but commercial mills have the same problems. If you can make your own the payback is faster.

Speaking about wind. Small wind (residential size) is way more expensive than PV today. It requires maintenance that is 120 ft high. If load is lost it has to be stoped to prevent self destruction by overspeed. In summary it is too troublesome for residential use. The advantage is it could produce power at night. PV on the other hand, requires only minimal maintenance, can be turend off wihout a danger od self destruction etc. Obviously it can't produce power when sun is not shining.

 

[jmc]

Woody,

In my town there is a club that advocates solar power and they are up to date on technology, rebates, net metering, etc for this area. They hold seminars in the library from time to time. If you have a group like that locally, I'd bet they have already analyzed this program and would be happy to help.

It seems that if you want to calculate annual electric savings, then income taxes play a big role. For example, if you are saving $1000/year that, previously, you wrote a check for, you had to earn maybe $1400 to net that payment after all the income taxes. Of course there are no taxes on the $1000 you saved with the PV program. So I think your real savings are actually higher.

John

 

[DANOCHEESE]

Wind Like Solar is location Location location. I demoed a unit at thirty feet high it produced enoguh to power for my house. In the event of no Load, it simply dumps into a load coil. The newer models are pretty nice. So you know I live on the prairie. It is windy here everyday and night. Sunny sometimes. The Power company is moving costs to the system and not the actual power usage. So to make it work out financially, I would have to go off grid. That is an option. I have a large genny for those hot no wind days.

Tot he original psoter Add soem measurability to the contract. Metrics are great If you fell it i snot working you prove your case.

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

We just went through the process of a ppa for four facilities in my county where I work. One was for a large 24/7 jail that consumes allot of electricity.

The ppa works well for us because we would never be able to afford the large capital purchase needed to get started but if I had the funds I would look real hard at purchasing the equipment outright. I am in Arizona and solar is being installed everywhere! Some times it makes sense and sometimes it is just to be "green"

Without local utility incentives this for sure would not be possible, I am sure their incentives are funded by state an federal funds which begs the question who is really benefiting from this?? Really it is an over seas financial company. In theory I don't like this project and what it means when you dig into it stinks of rotten eggs but that's just my opinion