Egon
Epic Contributor
You mean all them videos is fake?
Solar power & Wind Power for residental use
- Thread starter Terry1040
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You mean all them videos is fake?
Ken
Veteran Member
Terry1040
In 1960 lived in Gering on "M" street which was the road to Scottsbluff monument . Was working for a communication company that had a tower going North past the t.v. Sat. tower location called Whistle Creek and the wind there had to wait until long past dark before could climb tower to replace the lights.
Always considered it a well named location. Wind was always blowing strong.
Farther north toward Chadron was several water wind mills always pumping on a ranch site.
Revisited the area in '98 for the 2nd annual Harvest & Ranch Museum Festival Is this still being planned.
The sugar beet plant smell and quantity of beets stacked awaiting to be cooked was amazing to see.
What area do you live ?
ken
In 1960 lived in Gering on "M" street which was the road to Scottsbluff monument . Was working for a communication company that had a tower going North past the t.v. Sat. tower location called Whistle Creek and the wind there had to wait until long past dark before could climb tower to replace the lights.
Always considered it a well named location. Wind was always blowing strong.
Farther north toward Chadron was several water wind mills always pumping on a ranch site.
Revisited the area in '98 for the 2nd annual Harvest & Ranch Museum Festival Is this still being planned.
The sugar beet plant smell and quantity of beets stacked awaiting to be cooked was amazing to see.
What area do you live ?
ken
cqaigy2
Super Member
Sarcasm? :laughing:
buickanddeere
Super Member
Even the US military uses old fashioned lead acid batteries for energy storage in the most vital situations such as nuclear submarines .
95XL883
Gold Member
Really? (No sarcasm intended). I thought the vapor from lead acid batteries was explosive/highly flammable. Seems really dangerous in an enclosed submarine. Any idea how the vapor problem is controlled?
k0ua
Epic Contributor
I know in WWII the submarines had an evacuation system to deal with the off gassing. How well it worked I don't know. It must have worked as they didn't all blow up. Each sub had 2 banks of 126 cells each. Each cell was about 54x15x24 inches and weighed about 1650 lbs each. That is about 208 tons of battery. and And yes even modern nuclear subs still have a lead acid battery bank for backup, I am not sure how big it is.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Here is a little "light" reading about submarine batteries to gain an understanding of the size of those things.
Submarine Batteries
One of the more amusing scenes in the 1966 Frank Sinatra movie Assault on a Queen occurs when Sinatra’s band of merry adventurers start hauling a load of truck batteries aboard their salvaged u-boat, presumably to replace the sub’s original batteries. But the scene does point up a common misconception about submarines, and that is just what constitutes a “battery.” A submarine’s battery is not a small, unitary device like a car battery, but a massive collection of huge individual cells gathered in a large compartment in the lower section of the hull.
World War II American fleet submarines had two batteries, each composed of 126 cells. By comparison, a 12-volt car battery contains only 6 cells, each producing about 2.25 volts when fully charged, with a maximum power output of about 45-50 amps. Each cell in a submarine battery produces from 1.06 volts when fully discharged, to 2.75 volts at optimum output, so connecting the 126 cells in each battery in series gives a usable output of from about 210 to 350 volts, and a power output of as much as 15,000 amps with both batteries connected in parallel. (In earlier submarines, the two batteries could be connected in series for additional voltage, but this was no longer done with the much higher capacity fleet submarine batteries.)
Each cell was about 54 inches high, 15 inches deep, and 21 inches wide, and weighed about 1,650 pounds. The two primary manufacturers were the Exide Corporation (now Exide Technologies) and the Gould Storage Battery Company (now Gould Electronics, Inc.). Each battery cell was housed in a separate acid-proof tank as a precaution against leakage, as the electrolyte was highly corrosive and could seriously weaken the pressure hull if a leak went undetected.
The battery cells were made up of lead plates, suspended in a sulfuric acid/water solution, exactly like that used in car batteries. As the cells were charged, the breakdown of the water portion of the electrolyte could produce hydrogen gas. This was removed through an elaborate ventilation system and discharged outside the pressure hull. If allowed to accumulate, of course, this gas would constitute an explosion hazard.
An additional hazard, which could be encountered in unusual circumstances, was salt water contamination of the batteries. If salt water mixed with the electrolyte, chlorine gas could be produced, with obvious dangers to the crew. A limited chlorine gas problem added to the woes of the Squalus survivors as they awaited rescue.
The battery cells required daily service. This was usually delegated to the junior members of the electrical department, who could generally be identified by the white spots on their dungarees from acid splashes. Because of the quantities of distilled water needed to keep the cells topped up, it was supplied through a hose from large tanks adjacent to the battery compartments. The space above the battery compartments was used for accommodations, with the officers’ staterooms, wardroom, and chief petty officers’ quarters above the forward battery and the main crew berthing area above the after battery.
Improvement in battery technology and capacity was always an important goal in submarine design. A larger battery would allow longer submerged operation and greater speed. One of the main features of the GUPPY conversions following the war was increasing battery capacity.
Submarine Batteries
One of the more amusing scenes in the 1966 Frank Sinatra movie Assault on a Queen occurs when Sinatra’s band of merry adventurers start hauling a load of truck batteries aboard their salvaged u-boat, presumably to replace the sub’s original batteries. But the scene does point up a common misconception about submarines, and that is just what constitutes a “battery.” A submarine’s battery is not a small, unitary device like a car battery, but a massive collection of huge individual cells gathered in a large compartment in the lower section of the hull.
World War II American fleet submarines had two batteries, each composed of 126 cells. By comparison, a 12-volt car battery contains only 6 cells, each producing about 2.25 volts when fully charged, with a maximum power output of about 45-50 amps. Each cell in a submarine battery produces from 1.06 volts when fully discharged, to 2.75 volts at optimum output, so connecting the 126 cells in each battery in series gives a usable output of from about 210 to 350 volts, and a power output of as much as 15,000 amps with both batteries connected in parallel. (In earlier submarines, the two batteries could be connected in series for additional voltage, but this was no longer done with the much higher capacity fleet submarine batteries.)
Each cell was about 54 inches high, 15 inches deep, and 21 inches wide, and weighed about 1,650 pounds. The two primary manufacturers were the Exide Corporation (now Exide Technologies) and the Gould Storage Battery Company (now Gould Electronics, Inc.). Each battery cell was housed in a separate acid-proof tank as a precaution against leakage, as the electrolyte was highly corrosive and could seriously weaken the pressure hull if a leak went undetected.
The battery cells were made up of lead plates, suspended in a sulfuric acid/water solution, exactly like that used in car batteries. As the cells were charged, the breakdown of the water portion of the electrolyte could produce hydrogen gas. This was removed through an elaborate ventilation system and discharged outside the pressure hull. If allowed to accumulate, of course, this gas would constitute an explosion hazard.
An additional hazard, which could be encountered in unusual circumstances, was salt water contamination of the batteries. If salt water mixed with the electrolyte, chlorine gas could be produced, with obvious dangers to the crew. A limited chlorine gas problem added to the woes of the Squalus survivors as they awaited rescue.
The battery cells required daily service. This was usually delegated to the junior members of the electrical department, who could generally be identified by the white spots on their dungarees from acid splashes. Because of the quantities of distilled water needed to keep the cells topped up, it was supplied through a hose from large tanks adjacent to the battery compartments. The space above the battery compartments was used for accommodations, with the officers’ staterooms, wardroom, and chief petty officers’ quarters above the forward battery and the main crew berthing area above the after battery.
Improvement in battery technology and capacity was always an important goal in submarine design. A larger battery would allow longer submerged operation and greater speed. One of the main features of the GUPPY conversions following the war was increasing battery capacity.
katoomed00
Silver Member
After working offshore in the Gulf of Mexico for the last 27 yrs. I have a lot of experience with solar and wind generation used on unmanned structures mainly for SCADA systems and Aids to Navigation. It is very expensive and a high maintenance system (even on a small setup) for the little energy it produces, just the price of batteries alone would keep me from having solar power at home. Unless you plan on living off grid or live like my grandparents did in the 30s in rural Louisiana, or have no other means of electricity, there is no reason I would consider using solar. Solar and Wind serve a purpose, but is not made for everyday living, especially for people that want comfort and convenience. I'm sure many folks may disagree, but after using solar and wind generation for so long this is my final conclusion, if you are trying to save money on your electricity at home you would be way better off insulating you home better, at least it will eventually pay for itself, with solar and wind you never will recoup your money (unless the government pays for it).
BoFuller
Veteran Member
To answer the original question, we built a log home that is entirely off the grid. Nearest power lines are 5 miles. It's a 1750 sq ft home powered by solar. We have 12 panels for a 3.5K system and 16 batteries. Will the power generated ever be as cheap as the grid? NO, but that wasn't an issue for us. Independence was the primary concern. We have an electric refrigerator, dishwasher, water pump, washing machine, two tvs, 4 ceiling fans, and LED lighting. Our dryer is propane as well as the stove and the backup heaters. Primary heat source is our Blaze King wood stove. Yes, we have to manage our usage. We run the washer and dishwasher during the day and not at the same time. Our roof is rated R50 and the walls R22. We have just about completed our first full year, with temps running from 101 in July to 7 degrees last week, and I'm very pleased with the entire system. We have a backup generator (propane) in case the batteries get too low, and so far we have only had to use it once. I'm not into the politics of carbon footprint (maybe I should learn more), I just know our system works and I love it. I wouldn't connect to the grid if they brought a line up here for free (fat chance of that - my neighbor said the estimate was 150,000$).
To our benefit, we live in the most ideal location for solar. NW AZ at 6,000 ft elevation.
To our benefit, we live in the most ideal location for solar. NW AZ at 6,000 ft elevation.
95XL883
Gold Member
Thanks James. Some smart engineer must have figured out how to vent the gas. I had to read that a couple of times so the size of that battery compartment could sink in. It still is. Let's see, assuming two rows of 126 batteries each at 54 inches tall, 24 inches deep and 15 inches wide means the the compartment would be 157 feet long. So two rows plus say a 2 foot aisle to access and service the batteries means the compartment would be 6 feet wide. For height, maybe 6 feet. So the entire battery compartment would be 156' long x 6' wide by 6' high. Geez, that's a lot of battery. Thanks again.
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