Solar Power

[StoneHeartFarm]

Paul,

What flywheel doothingy? Haven't heard of anything using a fly wheel that I'm aware of. Do you remember the manufacturer or product name? Maybe I can crawl the web a bit and see what's out there.

SHF

 

[looch]

The one's I've seen look pretty serious ($$). I don't know if you can get smaller ones for lighter applications. It is a composite disc that sits on what the manufacturers refer to as "frictionless" bearings (wouldn't those be nice!). The thing takes energy to get going, but once you cut the power they can "spin-down" for hours. The only relevant sites I've found are http://www.activepower.com and http://www.magma.ca/~fesi/page3.html

 

[GlueGuy]

Patrick,

Here is a link to the John Denver accident report. Several mentions of the fact that he had "difficulty" reaching the fuel selector, that he needed a thick cushion to reach it, etc.

Oh, and one other thing. I want you to know that my next door neighbor is not a BMW driving larvae. He is a Jaguar driving larvae lawyer. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

The GlueGuy

 

[hayden]

My place in vermont is completely off the power grid, and runs off a solar + battery + inverter system with backup generator that I designed (at least form a system perspective).

From what I've read I think everyone is right under certain circumstance.

Conservation: This clearly provides the best $$ payback, return of grid capacity to others, save the earth etc. Just looking at $$payback time, things like compact floescent lights payback in 1-2 years.

Grid intertie: These provide the best cost/KwH and hence the best payback as GlueGuy asserts, because they do not require batteries and can be sized much smaller since they supplement consumption rather than provide all required power. Payback is between 10-20 years which is still a long time, but betwen lowering cost of solar and rising cost of grid power this payback time is looking better and better all the time. When it hits 5 years things will begin to happen.

Independent systems: As a prerequisit for an independent system, you have to do a mojor conservation exercise to reduce your power needs and convert may things like water heaters to propane or other fuels. When you add in costs of batteries and the need to size a system to provide all power under all weather conditions, payback goes up compared to a grid intertie system. Figure 20-30 years. It will be even longer before these become economical to the masses.

However, when you look at an independent system, there are two cases to consider. If you are looking at replacing grid power with an independent system, then you eat all the capital cost of the solar system and the payback takes a long time. If however you are installing power for the first time, you can potentially eliminate the capital costs associated with bringing in grid power and this can significanly alter the payback time. This is why solar systems are popular in remote homes where it costs just as much to bring in grid power as it does to install a solar system. In this case the payback is immediate and cost savings are immediate and everlasting.

In my case it would have cost $30k to bring in grid power, and I did solar with generator etc for about $15k. I saved $15k right from the start and I have a zero monthly power bill. It's ecomomically way better than grid power.

 

[patrickg]

GlueGuy, Thanks very much for accident link. I read the whole thing plus the detailed version. I tend to believe the report. Crummy reporting job at falult for my original misinformation. That reporter should go back to writing "Are the Space Aliens Still Raping Our Chickens" stories for the National Enquirer. By the way, the pillow was to aid in reaching the rudder pedals not the gas valve. Talk about lack of ergonomics, what a nightmare gas valve. If a Coast Guard Officer noted a vessel going out on that improvident of a voyage it would be turned back. That was but definitely an accident waiting for a place to happen.

Ah, Jaguar, huh? I used to really just love the XKE, they were so much fun. The owner's expressions when my little Sunbeam blew them off the road at any speed they were capable of was just precious. Don't know if you are old enough to have known about my little Sunbeam by Routes Group of England. It was about the size of an MG B model and was also two seater roadster and shared most of the chassis and sheet metal with the Sunbeam Alpine but had different engine,tranny, and rear end. the Alpine, then, was a 1725 cc 4 banger. Mine was the Sunbeam Tiger with a hi performance 289/302 Ford V8 racing engine cobbled in. Top speed was 165MPH. Ever see "Get Smart" the TV spy spoof. This was the car the main comedian/secret agent drove (mine didn't have the machine gun option).

Better to light a single Solar Electric candle than to forever curse the darkness. I'm thinking of maybe putting up a wind machine when the fast paced excitement of finishing my mom's house and designing and building mine dies down. Our wind isn't constant as I wish it were but in the winter there is too much overcast to make solar a viable option. Our insolation is insuficient. I have about 200 watts of 12 volt panels on my camper. Maybe I should hook it up to an appropriate inverter and reduce my electric bill. They certainly aren't doing anything for "the cause" just sitting there. I could save 2-3 bucks a week or something like 100 bucks a year (alowing for winter's reduced insolation). The panels are a sunk cost so I only have to amortize the inverter. Wow, payback in my lifetime if I cut back on saturated fat, total fat, get more exercise (aerobic), etc. etc. etc., maybe.

Patrick

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Paul,

These are basically being used to replace batteries? It could wind up being interesting technology, it'll just depend on how popular the units become to see what prices do.

There are always people who will pay $10.00 to do the exact same thing a $5.00 unit will do. Problem is, they are in the minority, the majority of people would buy the $5.00 item. So, it still comes back to scale of economics. The cheaper they can produce and sell the item, the more likely it is to come into the mainstream. For a solar installation, these units would be interesting. No batteries to fuss with, no acid or fumes.


SHF

 

[GlueGuy]

It's almost mandatory that the general "press" mess up anything regarding aircraft. I've know many, if not most, aircraft accident cases where they mess up something or other, and seriously distort the real picture.

Note in the JD accident report that the aircraft is not a "Long-EZ", but instead a "Adrian <something> Long-EZ". This is to make a point that it was not a "design" issue of the aircraft, but in fact a modified variant.

The intent of Adrian <whatever> was to make the fuel valve available to both the front seat and back seat. The implementation left a lot to be desired. I've seen a couple of EZ's where the implementation of a front/back accessible fuel valve worked pretty well. Best was where they put the actual valve all the way in the back, then ran a long torsion tube through the cockpit. Front & back seats each had a separate lever to switch left/right/off. Off position stuck up such that it poked you in the arm (and made putting your hand on the stick _very_ uncomfortable). I liked that one, but kept with the standard Rutan design between the pilot's legs. Works fine, lasts a long time.

The GlueGuy

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

I read an interesting article in the paper this morning about windmills. Seems they are subject to unexpected loss of output, and the engineers have finally determined it is being caused by bugs. Apparently the bugs get squashed on the blades during low wind conditions. This leaves a rough surface on the blade, which increases the drag and causes a loss in power output.

Does anybody know if this effects prop driven planes too? Just made me kinda curious.

SHF