Solar Power

[StoneHeartFarm]

GlueGuy,

Just wait, help is on the way! I believe it was August 1999 that Morther Earth devoted a whole issue to a new technology (actually not that new). FUEL CELLS! The technology is here and it is real. The only question is if we will see it. The units they were showing pictures of were about the size of a whole house air conditioner. 4500 kw. If that's not enough, they can be stacked to provide more power. Efficiency ratings were between 30-50% if I recall right. They will use natural gas, propane, or as I understand it just about anything that burns and can be catalyzed. They listed several different manufacturers and said Georgia Light and Power had bought exclusive distribution rights from one manufacturer for most of Georgia. One of the units pictured had a big GE logo on the side. They claimed GE has been powering a 3 bedroom home off the unit for the last 5 years. Prices were projected to be $10,000 per unit to start, with the cost expected to drop to under $1,000 within a decade. No moving parts, every ten years or so you pull the platinum dothingy out of the thingabob and send it for recycling, dropping another one in its place. What's killing me is the projected date for marketing to begin was march of 2000. Now we're a year past that, and I'm wondering how many other power companies bought "exclusive" rights.

SHF

 

[GlueGuy]

SHF,

While I believe that fuel cells might revolutionize automotive power in the next decade or so, I'm not so sure about domestic power. It might be a good deal at 50% efficiency, but I'd like to see it a bit higher. Would need to run the numbers on it before I would pass judgement. The only real issue that I'd have is that they would still largely depend on fossil fuels. Otherwise I'm all for it.

The GlueGuy

 

[gws]

People just dont get it. Fuel Cells are not the answer. They dont reduce the need for fuel, just change the source. What are you going to do when the natural gas supply runs out. Maybe solar will be developed then!!!! Have your priced propane and the amount of propane need to run a fuel cell? It going to be expensive to get cheap electric!!!!

MY mom named me Gary.

 

[Alan L.]

Coal is cheap and plentiful. Nuclear plants cost a lot to build, but the fuel source is cheap and doesn't pollute. If we are going to be a productive society we might have to pollute some, but as little as possible. Build more hydroelectric dams even if it causes some salmon fishing to disappear.

Alternative means of powering our homes and cars will become cost effective only when mass production begins. Mass production will not begin as along as the new alternatives still have to compete with petroleum. You can't depend on cars powered by fuel cells or other means right now because the filling stations only sell gasoline, and nobody knows what the standard will be. All of you who spent $1,500 on a beta video recorder sure wish you had gone with VHS I bet. But who knew which technology would be come the standard?

Alan L., TX

 

[RPM]

Haven't seen the article your talking about, but did read a good one recently. Basically, load the fuel cell up with gasoline (or diesel or kerosene). The fuel cell 'cracks' the hydrocarbons into gases (like methane) and those get oxidized releasing heat (not your classic 'burn').

It's all very clean - only products are Carbon Dioxide and Water. Temperatures in the fuel cell are a bit of a problem though if I remember rightly.

Apparently they are very cost effective - I believe that some companies that require power in remote locations are already making extensive use of them - can't remember the details though.

Now I've just got to remember where the article is and I'll see if I've remembered correctly and if there's anything else useful in it!!!

 

[cowboydoc]

I can't remember for sure which scientific magazine it was but there were some of these that they had made that ran off of plain old water. Problem was they cost about $100k to make. I'm sure with mass production that could decrease significantly. Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

RPM,

As I recall, the operating efficieny of these cells is higher than that of standard power plants. ie, more power for the same fuel. They mentioned they were working on a way to capture the heat and use it for domestic hot water, home heating, etc. The cost of the fuel going in becomes less of a factor IF the unit is more efficient than conventional power plants, AND provides home heating and domestic hot water.

When the technology is developed and marketed, I would expect the fuel to be available. Ever wondered where the owners of the first gasoline powered cars got it from? If the cells will run on gasoline, kero, propane and natural gas, how long will it be before you can pour in alcohol and make power? Alcohol is easy and most folks could figure out how to make their own. Maybe even be able to sell to the neighbors. (Farmers with low slung cars, big motors and heavy duty suspensions, packed to the gills with jugs of shine. Cruisin the back roads to avoid paying the fuel tax! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif)

SHF

 

[Alan L.]

How about a flux capacitor? Just put old beer cans and potato peals in and go to the next century!!

Alan L., TX

 

[GlueGuy]

That's where I think we are seeing some of the best gains in efficiency: combining energy conversion processes. The best efficiency I saw on a fuel cell was close to 80%, and this was done by capturing the waste heat from the electrical energy conversion. The system used the waste heat to power other things (heat the home, water, etc.)

Likewise, the best efficiency on solar cells is now on systems that capture the heat to do other stuff, as well as electrolosis to capture the energy in the hydrogen/oxygen.

The GlueGuy

 

[billboe]

Fuel cells run off hydrogen. They are making them to run off of readily available hydrocarbon fuels (i.e. gasoline, etc.), but, it is the hydrogen that is needed (this, by the way, makes the system much more complicated and not as clean). The website below has information regarding fuel cells.

http://www.fuelcells.org/

I heard of an interesting application. It a "flying machine" that had it's wing covered with solar panels. It uses the power from the panels to extract H from the air. It then uses the H to run a fuel cell that in turn keeps it airborne. So, instead of batteries, it uses H as a storage medium. This machine is suppose to be able to stay airborne indefinitely. Sorry, I don't remember the source for this... Altho, I do seem to remember that if it wasn't reality, it was "close".

Fuel cells are definitely in our future!


Billboe...